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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1507 of 1540 (826917)
01-14-2018 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1506 by Phat
01-14-2018 11:59 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
Phat writes:
The day that "Big Brother" can define for me what I think and feel is definitely not social progress in my mind.
The law has no interest what you think and feel, only what you say and do. If part of what you say or do involves an offence against a racial - or other protected group - you're going to get an increased sentence.
It's a signal that hate crime is not an acceptable

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1506 by Phat, posted 01-14-2018 11:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1508 by Phat, posted 01-14-2018 12:24 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1509 of 1540 (826920)
01-14-2018 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1508 by Phat
01-14-2018 12:24 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Phat writes:
Remember when there was that controversy over corporations being represented as people?
Nope, but they are seperate legal entities.
The same goes for this entity known as "the law". It is society literally creating a "Big Brother" personal entity and judge over everyone.
It's certainly society creating an institution that represents its interests by protecting them from both themselves and the rule of thuggery.
Which strikes me as odd that people reject the idea of a God over everyone and then go and create the same thing.
If your god was real, it might not have been necessary to create the criminal justice system, as he isn't, we have to do the best we can to protect ourselves.
I know I'm ranting and being foolish right now...but my point is that there is a difference between breaking laws regarding human rights and being charged with thinking of doing so.
There is no law preventing you thinking anything you like. The law is saying that if you do something unlawful and if that unlawful thing involes a 'hate' element, things are going to be worse for you.
Innocence until proven otherwise...rather than guilt by association (of thoughts)
There's no difficulty here, you have to have been found guilty of the crime before sentence is passed. The crime may be, say, assault. If by your language and actions it is clear that the assault has, say, a racial element by, say, shouting you 'black bastard' - or much worse - then you're going to get a tougher sentence. The reason is that we want to make a point that we live in a society that has minorities that need special protection.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1508 by Phat, posted 01-14-2018 12:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1511 of 1540 (826922)
01-14-2018 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1510 by jar
01-14-2018 12:43 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Jar writes:
I don't doubt that you have fallen so far that you would be proud of such utter nonsense or think it actually defends minority and vulnerable groups but once again, if you think that is what I meant it simply shows you are incapable of reading.
I can certainly read a post containing 10 words. I can do it almost effortlessly every time. Hell, I just did it again. Hardly took any time at all.
Extracting any meaning from it is quite another matter. So maybe you'd like to expand further on this inscrutable sentence?
Jar writes:
How sad that English Law has fallen to such depths.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1510 by jar, posted 01-14-2018 12:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1512 by jar, posted 01-14-2018 3:37 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1513 of 1540 (826929)
01-14-2018 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1512 by jar
01-14-2018 3:37 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Jar writes:
There is absolutely nothing inscrutable about that sentence.
Well it carries no meaning for me so if you want to go any further with it, you're going to have to explain yourself.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1512 by jar, posted 01-14-2018 3:37 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1515 by Phat, posted 01-15-2018 9:33 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1516 of 1540 (826979)
01-15-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1514 by New Cat's Eye
01-15-2018 9:29 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
NCE writes:
But that decision doesn't determine if you really have hate or not. As you go on to say:
quote:
The law has no interest what you think and feel, only what you say and do.
If people only thought the words, the law not only doesn't care but can't care. The saying and doing is the outward evidence of the hate. This is how we know that Trump is a racist, he says the things that racists say. The fact that he might not think that he is a racist is of no relevance. Bigoted people probably do not think they are bigoted, just ask Faith.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1514 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-15-2018 9:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1518 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-15-2018 1:47 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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