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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 714 of 948 (827526)
01-27-2018 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 706 by RAZD
01-26-2018 10:30 AM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
razd writes:
..
God is not a cheerio God is not a dollar bill, and God is not science. Since God is known by a plethora of infallible proofs outside of science, reason demands that the inability of science to detect God does not mean much outside of science. They just have pathetic detecting ability.
You have not dealt with time in far space so it is disingenuous to pretend some evidence was offered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2018 10:30 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 717 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2018 1:47 PM creation has replied
 Message 722 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2018 3:33 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 715 of 948 (827527)
01-27-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 707 by Taq
01-26-2018 11:02 AM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
taq writes:
...
Since all the fishbowl represents is the extend of what man knows and where he has been, the evidence is clear and undeniable and overwhelming. W only been so far, and we only know so much.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 707 by Taq, posted 01-26-2018 11:02 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 723 by caffeine, posted 01-27-2018 3:35 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 716 of 948 (827528)
01-27-2018 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 708 by Taq
01-26-2018 11:03 AM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
taq writes:
...
Nothing about time far away was presented actually.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 708 by Taq, posted 01-26-2018 11:03 AM Taq has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 718 of 948 (827530)
01-27-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 709 by RAZD
01-26-2018 1:24 PM


Re: The Win-Win and WIN again situation for Science
razd writes:
Says the person who has no evidence presented to ignore.
All that I ask is that you cease and desist ignoring the lack of evidence you have, and admit it is belief.
Every test scientists have made show a continuous pattern of time-space, and there is no cause, no rational, no reason, to believe anything else.
Utterly meaningless. They put a clock in a plane. Whoopee do. They have no ability to test what time is outside this area. Heck, they don't even know what it is here!
Amusingly the star space checker game accounts for things being different.
Mind games may loom large inside your head. They have no bearing on reality though. You do not get to try and make the universe a checkerboard where the squares are all equal for no apparent reason...as clever as you might think your little invented games are.
In addition you have failed to present any evidence whatsoever that there has been any kind of change. You want us to 'prove' you wrong when you have provided no evidence to evaluate for truthiness.
I assume you are back on earth again? Well, science can't tell us if there was or was not a nature change here in the far past. So you may not claim either by science. I don't. I simply point out science doesn't know. Why not be honest also?
Wishing is not science, denial of science is not science, making stuff up out of the blue is not science.
Great. So when you get some science get back to us.
You need to show the errors and evidence that it is errors (not make it up) if you want to say the current understanding of time and space is wrong. The onus is on you.
Easy to do. The error is that they base all models on belief only. The error is in deep space, that they just believe time exists there as here with no evidence. The error on earth is that they use present nature t model the past when they do not know what nature existed. Check and mate.
Once again you provide a stellar example of the ridiculous lengths evos will go to pretend that the so called reality which is really religion, does exist as described by science -- you have to make everything illusion with not one thing based on fact. That origin science.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2018 1:24 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2018 3:35 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 719 of 948 (827531)
01-27-2018 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by RAZD
01-27-2018 8:31 AM


Re: A couple questions for creation ...
Please define the limits of your "fishbowl"
The fishbowl is just a term to describe the solar system and area where man has actually been and has some direct knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2018 8:31 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2018 3:52 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 720 of 948 (827532)
01-27-2018 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 717 by Tangle
01-27-2018 1:47 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
tangle writes:
Fantastic, let's see these proofs.
You want to get into proofs that are outside of science on a science forum?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 717 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2018 1:47 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 726 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2018 6:03 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 728 of 948 (827609)
01-28-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 727 by Percy
01-27-2018 6:51 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
percy writes:
You're still babbling the same nonsense.
You're still babbling the same nonsense. Evidence has been presented that you've ignored that shows the supposed evidence you cite is beliefs only.. You've instead chosen to repeat the same objection without elaboration like a broken record, and you've presented no evidence yourself, nor even a description of what you think is causing the distant universe to appear to behave the same as the local universe when it really isn't..
I do not think the universe is any way. You do. You think time is the same, and we see no evidence given for that. Pointing out science does not know is not claiming I know. Nothing you have posted deals with time in the far universe. Seeing light here is seeing light IN time here. That does not even address if time exists the same far away.
Remember the forum guidelines.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 727 by Percy, posted 01-27-2018 6:51 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 734 by Percy, posted 01-28-2018 5:39 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 729 of 948 (827610)
01-28-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 726 by Tangle
01-27-2018 6:03 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Jesus rising from the dead as observed by hundreds of people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2018 6:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by Tangle, posted 01-28-2018 5:17 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 730 of 948 (827611)
01-28-2018 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 725 by RAZD
01-27-2018 3:52 PM


Re: A couple questions for creation ...
razd writes:
Please define the limits of your "fishbowl" ... is it your brain? the earth? the solar system? the galaxy? the universe?
Where's the line?
How do you know?
How can we tell if you are right?
Since the furthest probe is not even a light day away, we can stat there. The limits of where man has been are clear. Since the fishbowl is just a term referring to what we know and where we have been, the limits are self evident.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2018 3:52 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2018 7:44 AM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 731 of 948 (827612)
01-28-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 723 by caffeine
01-27-2018 3:35 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
caffeine writes:
Nobody has ever been to the centre of the earth. Do you then think that we have no way of knowing if and how time passes at the centre of the earth? If not, why not?
Time is not the issue there. But science does not know what the inner earth is like. They assume it obeys the laws we see on the surface. However, since the bible indicates some spiritual component down there, they can assume all they like. They do not know. Having one sort of seismic wave not go through an area there does not tell us, for example it is liquid. How would we know what that sort of wave would do if trying to pass through something that was more than just physical? No. We see that on the surface of the earth, such waves would not go through a liquid. Then we assume that if the waves do not pass through something in the unknown interior of the earth, that also 'golly gee, just must' also be liquid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 723 by caffeine, posted 01-27-2018 3:35 PM caffeine has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 732 of 948 (827613)
01-28-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by NoNukes
01-27-2018 2:46 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
nonukes writes:
So still no response, only a quote with no words from my message and a repeated denial.
False. Nothing you post needs denying. You didn't even deal with the issue of time far far away. Try not to deny that seeing some light in time here has no relation to what time may or may not be elsewhere. Or do you have some other point? Spit it out. I assure you it will not be worthy of any denial either. You flatter yourself pretending otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2018 2:46 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2018 12:28 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 737 of 948 (840548)
10-02-2018 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 736 by NoNukes
01-29-2018 12:28 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Observing effects of time is not knowing what time is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2018 12:28 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 738 by Taq, posted 10-02-2018 6:28 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 739 of 948 (840647)
10-02-2018 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 738 by Taq
10-02-2018 6:28 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
to 738
There is no street anyone crossed out in the far universe. Just because it may take a certain amount of time to cross one here, does not mean that time exists the same out in the unknown far reaches of space.
That should be obvious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Taq, posted 10-02-2018 6:28 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 746 by Taq, posted 10-03-2018 4:53 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 740 of 948 (840650)
10-02-2018 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 735 by RAZD
01-29-2018 7:44 AM


Re: A couple questions for creation ...
to 735
No. Currently man has not gone beyond that line, if he does, then we extend it. But lets face it man will never get to even a few light days away in your lifetime.
You do not look for a difference out there. You look here. We only see it all here. Always. Exclusively. Only here. Nowhere else ever. What you see then always HAS to be IN our fishbowl time and space!!!!!!! You have no way of knowing anything else about what time is like out there beyond the fishbowl.
Since the 'line' or boundary of where man has been with probes changes as the probes go out further, then the fishbowl limits extend. Man has more experience and has gone further. But it is so pitifully small a distance that it is almost insignificant in the big picture of the created universe. We must remain limited to the ONE little observation point. We simply cannot declare time and space all over the universe to be the same based on the one point of observation.
There is NO way you cam claim light took any great time at all to get to earth!
All you can say is something like..'here on earth we see light move in space and time a certain speed, and it takes so much time....and if all the universe were the same, then it ...would...could..should take the same sort of time to move out there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 735 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2018 7:44 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 756 by RAZD, posted 10-07-2018 10:33 AM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 741 of 948 (840665)
10-02-2018 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 736 by NoNukes
01-29-2018 12:28 PM


Re: The Win-Win situation for Science
Your problem is that any and all time anything involves is only seen here! Here where time exists as it does.
Even processes that involve time are only seen here. So, for example, if we see an object orbiting another object in say, 11 months, or 11 days that is 11 days or months as known/experienced/seen here in the fishbowl!
How much time may be involved far far far away we can't know by looking at the one observation point here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2018 12:28 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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