Creation

Hi dr, That is a simple question and easy to answer.There is no smallest positive number.God Bless,

You quoted Job, where it says "spread", not stretched. As I've already pointed out, when you spread butter you don't increase the volume.You quoted Isaiah, where it says the heavens were stretched out "like a curtain". When you stretch out a curtain, it doesn't get bigger. Only it's shape changes, like spreading butter.So no, the Bible doesn't say the universe expanded.

Hi NoNukes, I respect your answers to scientific questions.But when I ask you if Oxford English Dictionary claims that infinite is a synonym for eternal and you go into a rant like you did I might say things like who cares what you think.The simple answer to the question was yes, but you ranted on for several posts.Here is what the Oxford English Dictionary says:

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eternal
adjective
1Lasting or existing forever; without end.

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Synonyms
everlasting, never-ending, endless, without end
perpetual, undying, immortal, deathless, indestructible,
imperishable, immutable, abiding, permanent, enduring,
infinite, boundless, timeless

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ETERNAL | Meaning & Definition for UK English | Lexico.comI enlarged infinite in the list of synonyms.
As you can see the Oxford English Dictionary lists infinite as a synonym, in the synonyms of eternal.The correct answer would have been 'yes'.God Bless,

Why in the name of the God is this conversation continuing? The purpose of words is to communicate ideas. Words don't have a 'real' meaning, and when you've started arguing about what the 'real' meaning is you've stopped having a meaningful conversation. When there's a dispute about the meaning of words, the solution is to figure out what ideas people were trying to express. Let's go back to post 563. NoNukes said:

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What's wrong here is that you changed the subject from an argument that the universe is infinite in expanse to an argument about whether the universe is eternal. Now given that I am not making the latter argument, what is the point of your current discussion?

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Let's pretend that ICANT replied:

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By 'infinite' in this context I meant 'infinitely old', not 'infinite in expanse'

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and we can pretend the last 25 posts never happened, assuming anyone has anything of substance to say.

Hi caffeine, But I do not believe there is a difference in infinitely old and infinite in expanse.As I have said many time I believe the universe has always existed just not in the form we see it today.I believe the universe is infinite in every direction, that means in duration and size. The universe may change from point A to point B. But it never ceases to exist,But are you saying if I had used the word infinitely instead of infinite I would have been correct.Well here is the definition of infinitely.

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in-fi-nite-ly
adverb
to an infinite extent or amount; without limit.

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God Bless,

Hi ringo, The very same word translated streached, and spread in these two
verses are used in the following verse.

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Genesis 33:19 And he bought a parcel of a field, where he had spread his tent, at the hand of the children of Hamor, Shechem's father, for an hundred pieces of money.

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It is used several times in the bible concerning a tent.Those people had a hard time living in those tents if they were spread like butter on a piece of bread.For them to live in the tent it had to be expanded it by stretching it out. So yes it says it was stretched or spread which equals expanded.Unless you want to say those people stretched out their tents on the ground and slept on top of them.God Bless,

Hi Phat, As jar said singularity is not a thing.In fact singularity equals non existence as all math's break down and General Relativity does not work and can not tell us anything about what did or did not exist at T=0.That is the reason the only scientific answer for what existed at T-0 is "we don't know".Therefore, due to the fact science has no facts extending to T=0 anything that is proposed to exist such as multiverses or branes or the existence of anything of matter or energy is not scientific but assumptions made by mankind.Since the detractors seem to have deserted the thread I will continue with the discussion concerning creation.So let me start this post with some things that can be found in earlier posts.Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
This is a declarative statement of completed action by the subject of the verb. Being a declarative statement it is a complete sentence.Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,This scripture declares itself to be the history of the day in which God created the heavens and the earth.Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the day one.
Period of light equals a day.
Period of light with an evening followed by a period of darkness that ended with the following morning God declared as day one.A light period is God's definition of a day. Regardless of the duration of that light period.Phat if you have any questions concerning these statements I would like to try to answer them before I go any further.God Bless,

Think it through. That's exactly how tents are spread. They go from a small, folded package to a large, flat surface - but the volume of the fabric doesn't change. Again, "stretching out" the fabric does not mean that the fabric expanded. To be analogous with the expansion of space, the threads in the fabric would have to get farther apart. You'd have a tent full of holes.So no, the Bible does not talk about expansion in the same way that scientists do.

Hi ringo Have you ever been camping?What would you have tent dwellers do? Spread the tent on the ground and then put their bedrolls on top of it and lay under the sky?Go to your local sports store and check out their tent they have set up and then get back to me.God Bless,

We're talking about the tent itself, not the volume that it encloses. A tent unfolds to a specific size and doesn't get any bigger. That's the difference between spreading and expansion.As I said, if a tent was expanding like the universe, the spaces between the threads would get bigger, giving you a tent full of holes. I don't have to go to a sports store to know I wouldn't buy that tent.

Didn't you watch Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire or ever look inside the Tardis?

Hi ringo, That spread out 10' x 10' tent that is laying on the ground will expand to a volume around 700 cubic feet.Moses did not have a word that could have been translated as expand or expansion.He probably experienced his stomach expanding as he ate a meal but he thought he was just getting full.If you ever decide you want to know what the Hebrew text says you will have to quit thinking the way you do and begin to think like you would if you lived 3000 years ago. Until then you will remain clueless.God Bless,

Was he able to express the concept without having a word? Was he familiar with everyday things that he had to see growing and expanding if he was paying even the slightest bit of attention?In short, what is the point of making arguments of this type?

Hi NoNukes, The point was that Moses used the best word he had to describe what he was trying to say.He knew he could spread his tent out on the ground and then get inside and raise it up, or he could put poles up and spread it over the poles to form his tent in which he could get in and be out of the weather and especially the rain.If he just spread it out on the ground and made his bed on top of it he would have got wet if it rained.He said spread out like a tent not like a bed sheet as ringo wants it to be spread out.God Bless,

Moses would not be restricted to using a single word to communicate with. He did not have to use a tent as the example if he wanted to describe something that was not tent-like.