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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 510 of 606 (830264)
03-26-2018 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by jar
03-26-2018 6:56 AM


Re: More evidence of inability to think critically
I find the failure of critical thinking at EvC in general to be well represented in the last couple of posts. Anti-conspiracy bias is no example of critical thinking, just kneejerk dogma in itself.
The best evidence against the Jesuits and the Vatican is found in books written before the twentieth century because there's been a concerted effort to purge such writings from the public arena since then, replacing it with tons of lying Catholic propaganda. There are still some good sources out there though, along with the old books, for anyone who is interested. I've listed some of them in the margin of my blog on the subject HERE. Sorry, the general tenor of the discussion doesn't inspire me to supply detailed information. And besides of course this is way off topic anyway.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 6:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 8:34 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 512 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 10:47 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 513 of 606 (830277)
03-26-2018 11:13 AM


God and Gardens for personal and planetary health
jar complained on the thread about climate warming that my suggestion of encouraging people to plant gardens doesn't take into account how many people don't have yards for the purpose. Also complained that my suggesting that God be consulted about how to solve our planet's problems doesn't acknowledge that God brings famines and other disasters.
But of course both these objections are rather silly. A lot of people DO Have yards that are just sitting unused. And besides there are some interesting tower gizmos that allow you to grow many kinds of foods in a small space, like on a balcony. They cost a couple hundred dollars and you have to buy some nutrients for the plants you grow so it may be too expensive for some but it is possible. Some things can also be grown in pots of course. And there are some unused vacant lots even within cities that could be turned into gardens with the permission of its owners or the local government, or maybe by paying some rent.
As for my supposed lack of knowledge of the Bible because God brings famines and other disasters, hey, that's all God's judgment for sin, but if you set yourself to live by God's rules and trust Him and pray to Him you will find He takes care of you, leads you to solutons to problems of all kinds. He can even sustain His own through famines and every other kind of disaster if you put your trust in Him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 514 of 606 (830278)
03-26-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by jar
03-26-2018 10:47 AM


Re: More evidence of inability to think critically
Lack of evidence doesn't make me wrong you know. A little human trust would go a long way.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 515 of 606 (830279)
03-26-2018 11:36 AM


More on growing gardens
Frako just chimed in about growing gardens on that other thread:
Sure and remember to teach them how to grow food whitout water, and land. A person needs 0,5 Ha of FERTILE land to grow enough food for himself.( not accounting for loss of fertility, bad weather, pests etc...) The world is currently making due with 0,2 Ha of FERTILE land per person, the rest we make up with fishing the oceans barren grazing, starvation and of course farming land that is not very fertile.
If you had to grow ALL your own food all of a sudden, on infertile land and without water, of course you wouldn't stand a chance. You'd be dead already. But I'm talking about starting gardens as a habit that can be improved and extended over time. Step by step, little by little, as much as CAN be done. A plant here, a plant there, making compost etc. Baby steps.
I have both my Canadian relatives' gardens in mind, that certainly didn't supply everything they ate but probably at least 90% of their fruits and vegetables. And again this woman Annette Larkins who is one of my latest heroes, who grows just about ALL her own food in her yard in Florida. Front and back yards, every inch covered with something edible, plus big pots of edibles on walkway and patio too. She started this decades ago, it didn't happen overnight.
Again in some kind of disaster that deprives us of all sources of food a personal garden isn't going to save us, certainly not one we planted just yesterday.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by caffeine, posted 03-26-2018 1:39 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 517 of 606 (830282)
03-26-2018 11:59 AM


God doesn't feed anyone?
jar said the God of the Bible "never fed anyone" but forgets that He led Joseph to put up stores of grain against a coming famine which fed not only all Egypt through the famine but people from other countries. He also fed Elijah when he was waiting out the famine beside a brook, and through Elisha He fed a widow and her son during a famine as well. And of course He fed a few thousand people with loaves and fishes too.

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 2:05 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 518 of 606 (830283)
03-26-2018 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by ringo
03-26-2018 11:49 AM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
Yes, it sounds like me whether I demonstrate it here or not, or whether you recognize that I do, and it is the result of critical thinking that I know trusting in the Bible is the solution to everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 12:14 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 520 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 12:20 PM Faith has replied
 Message 526 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2018 1:49 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 521 of 606 (830292)
03-26-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by ringo
03-26-2018 12:20 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
Trusting one source implicitly is the exact opposite of critical thinking.
Not if that source is God's own word, and critical thinking can lead you to that knowledge. Yes it can. There is no other source that should be trusted completely, but God's word should be.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 12:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 1:08 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 523 of 606 (830295)
03-26-2018 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by ringo
03-26-2018 1:08 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
What you mean is, "Faith in God is better than critical thinking," just like you mean, "Faith in God is better than science," or "Faith in God is better than evidence." You keep tripping over yourself because you can't bring yourself to actually put faith in God above everything.
No I do not mean anything of the sort. Critical thinking is necessary for anything the Bible does not dictate, including extrapolations from Biblical revelations and for understanding context and details about them. Science is crucial to us except where it contradicts God's word, and evidence is always necessary for knowing anything. You all here just have a very narrow and sometimes utterly false idea of evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 1:08 PM ringo has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 527 of 606 (830301)
03-26-2018 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by caffeine
03-26-2018 1:39 PM


Re: More on growing gardens
Who'd have thunk it, I actually agree with you for once. We could make a lot of simple changes to boost our own food production at home; with beneficial environmental effects.
Thank you.
However, the majority of people don't own the land to make any significant impact, I think. We like to grow stuff, but we don't have a garden. We do quite well on the herb front, but our annual vegetable output would suffice for about one meal. I don't think we're having any major effect on the world of agriculture,
But if gardening became popular, even a necessity in most people's eyes, even all those things would change, slowly over time of course, as human ingenuity found space for gardens, invented space, created them wherever possible, refused to buy or rent where there wasn't such space and so on and so forth. Where I am I have a balcony, and I could grow some things there and wish I were up to it but I don't even get out much. Be that as it may the balcony is there and available for use. I saw a film on Netflix not long ago, Ukrainian or something like that, where a woman moved out of her crowded family apartment into her own apartment and among all her other new freedoms and creative possibilities started growing things in pots on her very narrow balcony.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 528 of 606 (830302)
03-26-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by NoNukes
03-26-2018 1:49 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
You say I latch onto
....ridiculous conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, bigotry and other claptrap
But that's simply not true. The conspiracies happen to be true, I don't follow pseudoscience, that's your own false judgment, and I'm not a bigot, that's just the usual kneejerk label applied by those here who ARE bigots and don't know how to think.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 2:53 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 531 of 606 (830311)
03-26-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by PaulK
03-26-2018 2:53 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
The weird thing is that the term "conspiracy theories" is used as a mere denunciation, it has no actual content, it's just a way to call someone crazy. It's a form of categorical thinking. Nobody is interested in finding out what evidence there might be for the existence of an actual conspiracy because it's immediately subsumed under "false thinking." What is that but a form of bigotry?
I don't know what evidence I may or may not have given here about the Jesuit conspiracies, but there is a lot of evidence. There are books galore written about it. But the very idea is dismissed out of hand due to bigotry against "conspiracy theories."
I've been learning about the Jesuit conspiracy for a dozen or so years by now. The idea was quite new to me at first. After you've heard about all the different things imputed to the Jesuits since their inception just the imputation begins to add up to reason to take it seriously.
I'm sure there are other conspiracies I believe to be real that have less accessible evidence for them.
I have no idea what pseudoscience is being imputed to me. Natural foods diets? Oh well.
There is a lot of hidebound kneejerk categorical thinking about these things at EvC, certainly a failure of critical thinking, a form of bigotry..
"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 2:53 PM PaulK has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 532 of 606 (830312)
03-26-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by jar
03-26-2018 2:05 PM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
jar didn't forget those things but jar pointed out that the God of the Bible did nothing to stop the famines and in many cases directly caused those famines.
Of course, they are His judgment for sin. Punishment. Of course nobody likes the idea of being punished for sin, but justice requires it according to God's law.
But the principle of mercy in judgment means that He did inspire some people to provide relief in famine to those who trust Him, even having mercy on whole nations as He saw fit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 2:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 6:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 535 of 606 (830323)
03-27-2018 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by jar
03-26-2018 6:11 PM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
That does not alter the fact that the God you market is still the source and cause of the famines and fully responsible for those famines and for the fact that such genocide does not just punish the guilty but rather the innocent as well.
So, the judge who passes the death sentence on a serial killer is responsible for killing the serial killer. OK. Or doesn't it make more sense to say the killer deserves the death sentence and is therefore the one responsible for it?
As for the innocent being killed along with the guilty, actually God usually warns the innocent to escape, such as when He warned Lot's family to get out of Sodom because He was going to bring a fiery judgment on that city. And when Noah preached that the world was going to be destroyed by water so that people might be saved on the ark. And when He had Elisha, or was it Elijah, warn the Shunemite woman about the coming famine and told her to escape to Egypt. And when He warns the innocent people in the Harlot Church to "get out of her My people lest you partake of her plagues." And so on. And, of course, when God's people take the gospel to people around the world, it is a warning to come to Christ to be saved from the fiery judgment to come on this earth, and on all sinners for eternity.
God always provides a way out to those who trust and obey Him. You just don't like His terms. Like all those who heard Noah's preaching but refused to believe him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 6:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 1:21 AM Faith has replied
 Message 539 by jar, posted 03-27-2018 6:54 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 537 of 606 (830325)
03-27-2018 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 536 by NoNukes
03-27-2018 1:21 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
What I said is true, God warns many to escape judgment to come.
It is you who are judging that some who were punished are actually innocent, although you don't know that at all. It is God who decides those things. In fact nobody is innocent, not even those God warned, and not those saved by the gospel either. Judging God is really not a safe thing to do, He knows what He is doing and you don't.
"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" says the sovereign God.
Of course we fallen human beings have a problem with that, of course, but wisdom decrees that we defer to the God of all wisdom whether we understand it or not.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 1:21 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 2:07 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 540 of 606 (830331)
03-27-2018 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 538 by NoNukes
03-27-2018 2:07 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
We talk about innocence because there are degrees of guilt although we are all born sinners. The innocent in the Bible are most likely to be those who trust God although they are fallen like everybody else.
But again, God is sovereign and trusting your own thoughts above His is sheer folly. We are not in a position to know God's thoughts beyond what He has revealed to us in the Bible, but we are all to trust His greater wisdom whether we understand or not. Of course God's judgments are scary and often incomprehsible to us, but criticizing Him based on our fallen minds is a very bad idea. You've heard that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom I'm sure. That's really what humility is. That's where we have to start.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 2:07 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by jar, posted 03-27-2018 10:17 AM Faith has replied
 Message 545 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 11:06 AM Faith has replied

  
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