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Author | Topic: Health 4 Life~The Science Behind Consumption | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Though I will admit that Granny Magda presented a good argument that partially debunked Dr.Rosedales talk which I presented in faiths thread, I remain quite convinced that the overall science in low carb dieting and in reduced need for insulin is my best course of action regarding my approach to my lifestyle, my diet, and my Type II Diabetes. Make no mistake---I have done my homework on this matter. Allow me to explain the facts---(not wild theories) regarding my own individual physiology.
Many years ago, roughly the year 2000, I was diagnosed as a borderline Type II Diabetic. For those of you who do not know, Type I Diabetes--where the pancreas produces no insulin whatsoever---is a totally different disease than Type II Diabetes, characterized by insulin resistance in the body. I had read some of what Diabetes is and does and can do to the body---but I was still unaware of the strength of the disease and what it meant for my responsibility at controlling my own blood sugars. I was the one who, back then, advised my own Doctor that I wanted to take supplemental long acting insulin---the theory being that it would preserve my pancreas from burning out. For better or worse I have always been a rebel in regards to my own health---and in retrospect, it was likely a mistake that I allowed that prescription. As normally happens, I was in a state of denial for many years regarding my responsibility at managing my own disease. I wanted a magic bullet and a shortcut For many years, my A1C readings were as high as 13. Damage was occurring in my lower limbs and throughout my body and the insulin resistance began to increase.So when I go to see the Doctors, what did they do? They took tests, looked at my readings, and continued prescribing insulin---even upping the dosage and adding Humalog(short-acting insulin before meals) !!!! As a layman, I had read the official approach that the ADA recommends---it is not nearly as extreme as a low carb diet can be and likely would have been better for me than the insulin, but I loved my food and I wanted to eat what I wanted to eat--for many years. I am a voracious reader, however---and I don't simply read what so-called alternative medicine snake oil gurus sell. Sime of them stumble on to sound science anyway. (Like Mercola) who hosted Dr.Fung on his podcast. For his part, Dr.Fung is only guilty of selling books---I see no evidence that his science is at all bad. The man knows what he is talking about. He founded Toronto based Intensive Dietary Managment and I know what you guys are gonna see--lots of testimonials and selling books---not to mention that the program is not cheap---though I would argue that traditional medicine is not cheap either---and my wisdom tells me that getting off of insulin or cutting way back is a winning strategy. I can explain the science in my own words now.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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PaulK Member Posts: 18059 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
That sounds strange. Someone who is marginally Type II diabetic would normally get by on Metformin, without even needing extreme dietary changes (although dietary changes would be beneficial, and an extreme calorie restricted diet under medical supervision might even have reversed the disease- although that is a more recent discovery).
If the doctors decided you needed more insulin later, it might be because your disease had worsened to that point. Or they might be honouring your decision to use insulin, or they might have misjudged the situation, assuming that you required insulin, because you were taking it. I am certainly not convinced that Fung is right in any area where he disagrees with mainstream medical science.
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
The Doctor(s) whom I had at the time were not endocrinologists and did not manage the decision making process but rather honored my choice to start the insulin. In retrospect, using the insulin actually increased my insulin resistance. Had I known then what I know now, I could have reversed my diabetes with at most metformin alone. (and diet) but I managed for a few years without abnormally high blood sugars... As for Dr.Fung vs mainstream, two of the highest regarded endocrinologists in Denver, one of whom is my own, advocate the pharmaceuticals and the insulin when needed. They have one goal: Lowering the AlC. They rightly assert that the high blood sugars are what cause the damage.
For several years, my A1C readings were frightful. 11/20/2012- 9.06/13/2013-10.5 1/4/2014-13.0 7/28/2014-11.0 02/17/2015-7.2 09/10/2015-8.3 04/02/2016-7.1 10/24/2016-9.1(after I lost my job) 5/17/2017-8.4 12/08/2017-7.3 And I go in on Thursday for the latest number, after I have taken control of my eating and medicines both. PaulK writes: Many people get along just fine on moderate insulin and the ADA Diet. Human nature being what it is, many people often cheat, however. I was one of them. For a few years, this works ok as one can simply increase insulin in order to maintain control. I have always taken control of my health and medicine, (or lost control) just like others have done. If the doctors decided you needed more insulin later, it might be because your disease had worsened to that point. Or they might be honoring your decision to use insulin, or they might have misjudged the situation, assuming that you required insulin, because you were taking it. I am certainly not convinced that Fung is right in any area where he disagrees with mainstream medical science. The only drawback to Dr. Fungs approach is that few people are disciplined enough to eliminate potatoes and starches from their diet. If they choose to keep them, they will require more insulin. Doctors are trained to manage a number and prescribe what it takes to achieve that number. They can give nutritional advice, but most patients would rather have their cake and their shots rather than less shots and no cake.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Just because its a video does not mean that it is not informative and full of sound research. I send these to my Endocrinologist as well...she and I will talk on Thursday. Already after 2 weeks on my lower carb lifestyle I have dropped 10 pounds and have a lower resting heart rate. The verdict will be when I find out my A1C on Thursday. Also, I am getting feeling back in my feet and my legs have decreased swelling. My hunch is paying off.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]() |
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2
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Today is Day 108 in Gambling and the 5th official day of my low carb eating program.(though I've been doing it off and on since March 15th) and i'm finally burning fat efficiently. So today, I went to see my Endocrinologist at Denver Endo. As noted above, my prior blood sugar readings, on full insulin plus Trulicity, were always above 7 and once as high as 13. Today I informed the Doctor that I had cut my insulin dose in half and also quit taking Trulicity. My A1C came back at 6.3! (Normal is 5.5-6.0)
She asked me what I had done and I told her about my Lo Carb diet approach plus Dr.Jason Fung and the theory that insulin causes insulin resistance. She told me to keep doing what I was doing, with one provision: For two weeks I need to take my blood four times a day to check my sugar pattern. Conclusions:
I go back again in 3 months, and I eagerly await the results of how much my neuropathy can heal by then. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
My bloodwork results hav come back and in every measure I am on the road to improvement except that my blood pressure is up a bit. Since the fat burning and fueling with ketones over glucose has only just begun, my next plan is to get some consistency under my belt and maintain strict blood sugar control. The Doctors and I again disagree, though I can understand how they are medically liable for giving the best advice that real-world science offers. For example, she wants me to take Lipitor. I have taken it in the past, and although it does control my LDL very well (targeting a number) it has many side effects that I dont particularly like. This last blood test came back with my LDL under 100 (goal) at 93 without the Lipitor, so I figure why even take it?
I'll let her know my decision.(they document all of my decisions in their records) Their basic argument is that nobody can live on a low carb intermittent fasting approach for their entire lives and that the reality of an honest lifestyle has its normal diet (that Tangle talks about) with its days of birthday cake, carbs, and as a result needed insulin. It is how they are taught, and I suspect that they receive funds from the pharmaceutical companies for conducting surveys and trials on various prescriptions. Quite honestly, my track record over 5 years regarding carbs has been both good and bad, as they say. My argument, however, is that I can learn to live (and relish) a low carb diet for life, and that it will give my body time to heal by reducing the need for insulin ages the body and just as my friend in Greece did, I will eventually gain back much of my insulin sensitivity and will only then be able to cheat once in awhile at a special event like a wedding or birthday. (Right now if I eat carbs, my legs and feet hurt and begin to swell and I feel like crap!) While my weight dropped from 245 to 234 in under a month, it is too soon to determine the long-range ramifications of these relatively sudden changes. Ringo tells me to watch out for confirmation bias, and I need to focus on reality over fantasy. Just yesterday I was daydreaming of the time 25 years ago when I could ride my bicycle 70 miles in a day and when I was younger and felt much stronger than I do now. Reality suggests that I will never become young again.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I did some research and found a local Doctor who is more in line with what I believe.
Dr.Jeffrey Gerber He is, like Dr.Fung, an online personality, but it appears that he understands the same science that I have been studying, and I think he would be a better fit for my eccentric and rebellious nature.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Tangle Member Posts: 9633 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
It's the internet Phat, you can find anything and anybody you like, if all you want is self-reinforcement.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
in this area of study, I am no dummy. I have learned a lot about the science through multiple sources. Additionally, I had a friend who resensitized his insulin response and who lost 100 pounds. You can't refute the science behind low carb, non-insulin approaches to Type II.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Tangle Member Posts: 9633 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Phat writes: in this area of study, I am no dummy. I have learned a lot about the science through multiple sources. Additionally, I had a friend who resensitized his insulin response and who lost 100 pounds. You can't refute the science behind low carb, non-insulin approaches to Type II. I wish you the best, I just fear that within the year you'll be on yet another faddy plan that you are certain of and can find people on the internet that agree with you about.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Getting a second opinion doesn't mean Google's. He is, like Dr.Fung, an online personality, but it appears that he understands the same science that I have been studying....An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
ringo writes: My but you are a snippy one! Getting a second opinion doesn't mean Google's.![]() I have set up an appointment on May 30th with Dr.Jeffrey Gerber. His credentials seem to check out, and all that I see uniques about him vs my old Doctor is that he is knowledgeable as to the correct science involved in treating Type II Diabetes vs the old school drugs and medical approach---though if needed he can also prescribe medication. One reason that I brought this whole diabetes/exercise/diet personal problem up here at EvC is that many of you have an education, as do many of the Doctors who are, in fact, wrong regarding treatment of this disease. It is time to face the evidence and quit looking up to science blindly while also dismissing the newer information as quack science. I see the new Doctor May 30th at which time I will again have blood work done as well as advice on which medicines to keep and which to discontinue. The numbers don't lie. My blood sugar is at the best that it has been in 10 years thanks to my own initiative and taking charge of my medications myself...but I want a Doctor on board who understands the science which I am pursuing rather than one who is in bed with the pharmaceutical industry.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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ringo Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm just saying, let the doctors weigh the evidence. It is time to face the evidence and quit looking up to science blindly while also dismissing the newer information as quack science.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Ive given the traditional endocrinologists a try for 3 years. They incorrectly prescribed insulin and actually caused me to become more insulin resistant. They refused to listen to me when I advocated the lower insulin low carb approach and wanted to sign me up for studies conducted by the pharmaceutical industry.
Explaining the science behind the keto diet | 9news.com This is my new Doctor on TV. I am going with him and his posse. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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ringo Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That says it all. This is my new Doctor on TV.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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