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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 474 of 2292 (829938)
03-18-2018 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Rrhain
03-18-2018 12:00 AM


Rrhain writes:

And yet I have.....You even provided one for yourself.

Nope, what we both did was point out that an individual's beliefs about their god were wrong; not that their god does not exist. If I incorrectly claim that my sister is older than me, my sister doesn't vanish in a puff of pseudo-logic.

And, of course, that was only one delusion for one god. If you're going to take up this challenge I suggest you get started. Here's a provisional list of the god's you need to erradicate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Rrhain, posted 03-18-2018 12:00 AM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Rrhain, posted 03-25-2018 8:00 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 476 of 2292 (830260)
03-26-2018 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 475 by Rrhain
03-25-2018 8:00 PM


Rrhain writes:

If you were to say that your definition of "sister" were to include "a being who is two years older than me and was the child of my parents,"

Obviously wrong. The age of my sister is irrelevant. Her existence or otherwise is a matter of fact that can be shown by observation. You disproving that my belief that she is older than me does nothing to disprove her existence. You can demonstrate her existence without worrying about her age.

The human belief that God created species as we see them today does not make that god disapear when it is proven that species evolve. It merely shows that particular belief to be wrong.

Even if you took every single belief about every single god, you could not 'prove using science' that a god did not exist. All you could do is prove that each diferent belief about a god was incorrect. But of course you can't even do that because the posible beliefs about god are infinite and the black swan will always exist as a posibility.

This is why it is important for you to define what you mean.

And that is why it is important for you to accept you can't do what you claim to be able to do.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by Rrhain, posted 03-25-2018 8:00 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by Rrhain, posted 03-26-2018 4:04 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 478 of 2292 (830262)
03-26-2018 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Rrhain
03-26-2018 4:04 AM


Rrhain writes:

Did you provide a definition of what you meant by "sister"?

If you want to discuss the infinite number of definitions of god I suggest you open a new thread which I won't be joining.

Meanwhile my sister exists and can be proven to exist whether or not I'm incorrect about her age, her hair colour, her height her educational background, her husbands second name, her preference for ketchup over brown sauce or any other artifact you care to mention. Similarly god may or may not exist regardless of what you believe about him/her/it. And you, like everyone else there's ever been and ever will be are unable to disprove him/her/it.

I can only suggest you get on with writing your book destroying every god that every individual invents and has ever invented.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Rrhain, posted 03-26-2018 4:04 AM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 480 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 3:39 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 482 of 2292 (830657)
04-04-2018 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 480 by Rrhain
04-04-2018 3:39 PM


Rrhain writes:

And even more inexplicably, YOU disproved god, too. You, who claims it cannot be done, did the very thing you're certain is impossible.

Must everything be repeated to you every single time?

What both you and I have done is demonstrate that a particular belief about a particular god is wrong. I suggest you get on with the rest.

But maybe a short cut would be to attempt - using science - to demonstratie that a non-theistic god doesn't exist? I don't hold out much hope, I expect you'll continue to play word games, but you never know, you might be the one person in the world able to disprove god. Go for it big boy, your ego is certainly up to it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 3:39 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 4:50 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 485 of 2292 (830668)
04-04-2018 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by Rrhain
04-04-2018 4:50 PM


Now you're just being boring.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 4:50 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 7:29 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 488 of 2292 (830686)
04-05-2018 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by Rrhain
04-04-2018 7:29 PM


Rrhain writes:

Well, whenever you wish to actually try, we'll be here.

The burden is on you; when you are able to demonstrate the non-existence of god using science - your claim of a couple of hundred posts ago - I'll happily read it. 'Til, then we can assume your claim is puff.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by Rrhain, posted 04-04-2018 7:29 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by Rrhain, posted 04-05-2018 8:06 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 496 of 2292 (853834)
06-01-2019 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by ringo
06-01-2019 12:22 PM


Phat writes:

Actually it could be argued that God is the one making the claim. I AM that I Am.

I am Sparticus

In an update about how I know that god does not exist.

My relative was taken from the hospice to A&E late last night because he'd started uncontrollably vomiting blood. His cancer is throughout his abdomen which is filled with tubes and stents draining the by-products of the disease. You can imagine the agony he was in while retching. This lasted for 6 hours. During this the priest was called to deliver last rights but somehow they pulled him round. I doubt he's grateful for that.

He's back in the hospice now still in pain, still dying - just a little faster.

How can you guys believe in a loving god that allows his believers to die slowly like this. Or even at all. You cling onto story book ideas but you look the other way at things that really happen in every minute of every day.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 06-01-2019 12:22 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Faith, posted 06-01-2019 7:58 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 498 by AZPaul3, posted 06-01-2019 9:41 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 504 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 3:10 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 506 of 2292 (854012)
06-04-2019 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Dredge
06-04-2019 3:10 AM


Dredge writes:

Atheists are quick to condemn God for all the terrible things in life, but "look the other way" and never think to thank God for all the wonderful things in life. A curious imbalance, I must say.

How do you explain a loving god that allows and has created death, disease and suffering?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 3:10 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:43 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 537 by Dredge, posted 06-05-2019 2:49 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 529 of 2292 (854077)
06-04-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 10:43 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

Granted I don't fully understand the reason for all of this unimaginable belief, but I do believe that something crazy is destined to happen...

That's because you've gone a bit crazy lately.

God is unconcerned with the temporal death of the moment. We are nothing but clay to Him. The fact that a billion people starve to death is on us rather than on Him since it is not His job to play rescuer genie to a planet of bleeding heart whiners.

So much for god the loving father. He's a total shit isn't he?

We were and are given the basic choice to trust Him or not...and evidently many of you secular humanist educated liberal whiners(sorry I'm on a rant ) accuse this hypothetical God of being unloving because He has the audacity to ask you to trust in His eternal plan and not run around doing what YOU think He has an obligation to do to "serve and protect" existing humanity with all of its own problems.

You're describing a psychopath.

Perhaps God decreed that it must be that way because objective evidence would have led to a secular humanist minded unregenerated population to accept Him yet insist upon their own freedom to question and to doubt to remain in force.

Gibberish


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:43 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 538 of 2292 (854145)
06-05-2019 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Dredge
06-05-2019 2:49 AM


Dredge writes:

Well, as far as humans are concerned, pain and suffering are a result of the Fall.

Crap. Adam and Eve, talking snakes, trees of knowledge and paradise gardens are primitive myth. And the idea of condemning all mankind forever for a act performed by a distant ancestor is evil.

As for the pain and suffering of non-human creatures, there is reason to believe their creation is a process of moving from imperfect to perfect:

Also crap. You god is incapable of creating perfection? Where are we then Life 1.0? Are we waiting for the next minor upgrade?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Dredge, posted 06-05-2019 2:49 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Pressie, posted 06-05-2019 6:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 552 by Dredge, posted 06-07-2019 2:21 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 553 by Dredge, posted 06-07-2019 2:26 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 545 of 2292 (854287)
06-06-2019 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by Thugpreacha
06-06-2019 1:17 PM


Phat writes:

Actually, that's a good point. I'll have to think about that.

ffs Phat, where have you been for the last 10 years? You seem to live in groundhog day.

That 'good point' has been written here to you and others hundreds, if not thousands, of times, but you hear stuff like this for the first time every time. Nothing sticks in your head except preacherish bullshit. Why is that?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-06-2019 1:17 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 548 of 2292 (854291)
06-06-2019 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Thugpreacha
06-06-2019 4:11 PM


Re: Dan barkers godless audio version
Phat writes:

Even though I am a fundie and a believer in absolute truth I am open-minded

For what it's worth I think you're neither a fundie nor open minded, atm you're behaving more like a teenager acting a part not very well.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-06-2019 4:11 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 554 of 2292 (854324)
06-07-2019 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 552 by Dredge
06-07-2019 2:21 AM


Dredge writes:

You're referring to symbolic language that describes a literal event in history.

Try telling that to Faith. But perhaps you can tell us all about the literal event of the Fall.

Where did you get "forever" from? You don't seem to know much about what the Bible says re redemption, the end of suffering and death and the future of creation.

There is no redemption. We live we suffer we die. If something happens after that no one has any knowledge of it whatsoever.

Suffering and death because of a fictional act by a ancient predecessor is an evil idea. And is inconsistent with a loving god.

Why is your god running the hunger games?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by Dredge, posted 06-07-2019 2:21 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 555 of 2292 (854325)
06-07-2019 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 553 by Dredge
06-07-2019 2:26 AM


Dredge writes:

God's promises will arrive in the fullness of time.


That lie has been pushed out by shaman for thousands of in order to make people feel better about the fact that everyone will die.

Meanwhile, you can believe that this life is as good as it gets - if that's what makes you happy.

Thanks, I do and it is and it's fine.

(Personally, if I believed this life is all there is, I would be miserable.)

And that kind of hopeless thinking is why it has been necessary for people to invent god myths of all kinds for thousands of years. Luckily we're finally beginning to grow up and improve our own lives ourselves and put aside the childish wishful thinking.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Dredge, posted 06-07-2019 2:26 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7066
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 567 of 2292 (854577)
06-10-2019 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
06-10-2019 1:55 PM


Faith writes:

Oh well.

Oh well indeed.

What you believe are your own feelings. Your beliefs are only evidence of your belief. it's purely subjective - it only applies to you.

This should be obvious because even amongst believers of the same faith, you believe different things. You, Phat, GDR all have different and personal 'evidence'. If witnesses in court gave evidence that was different, we'd rightly question and doubt it.

To be real evidence it must be demonstrable to a third party. As a third party to you Phat and GDR all I can say is that you appear to genuinely believe something.

I don't share your beliefs although I did have similar beliefs when I was growing up so I do know how real they can seem. But it's having lost that belief that means I know that the experience of belief is a delusion.

If you have that belief it's impossible to see all the piles of actual, real and demonstrable to third party evidence that exists and is readily accessible. We talk about it endlessly here but it doesn't touch the sides of a believer's mind because the belief prevents it. It is a delusion but it's the nature of a delusion that the deluded can't see it. Go to any mental hospital and talk to the men that think they're Jesus and Mussolini and you see delusion first hand. No amount of evidence can shift their belief.

Anyway, no Faith. You belief is not evidence for God and neither is a book.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 1:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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