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Author | Topic: Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Yes, and you believe that it is a record that shows changes over time whereas I believe it all happened at once and is over and done with.
This is where dating comes into the picture. The evidence clearly shows large amounts of time, and disproves your all-at-once belief. And this is why you have to ignore or deny scientific dating--dating alone shows your beliefs are wrong.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Exactly It is ONLY the radiometric dating that shows it wrong, just one kind of evidence, and that's partly why I don't address it. Don't forget relative dating, and all the other methods RAZD has presented in his several long threads. So you're wrong here.
There are creationists who do address it though, I just haven't studied the subject enough to follow them. But we have and they have no better arguments against the various dating methods than you do.
Also, although the method looks consistent in the present, there is no way to know if it holds up in the past. Sure there is! You've been shown the evidence, but just reject or ignore it.
But having only ONE kind of evidence doesn't cut it in any case. There is not just "ONE kind" of evidence. That's creationist wishful thinking. There are dozens of different methods of dating beyond radiometric dating. There is a huge agreement among all of those methods. Ever hear of thermoluminescence dating? That's just one!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Perhaps you can find better terminology for it because it's all a semantic problem. No, its a religious problem. As you've stated many times, you can't accept any evidence not supported by your interpretation of the bible. You are pushing a very narrow brand of religious apologetics, and it would be best if you remembered that. You're certainly not doing science--more the opposite. Perhaps if you ended each post with, "Amen!" it would help you remember this.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The other methods of dating take you no further back than 10,000 years, such as tree rings. That is false. Look at the different items which go way beyond 10,000 years, and look at the agreement among the different materials.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I'm showing that what you call "science" is nothing but subjective imagination. All you are showing is that religious belief can be, and often is, disproved by science and that believers will refuse to accept the evidence, no matter how strong it islReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
True I can only assume the errors because everything else I know contradicts the methods. Or, because the dating contradicts everything else you "know," perhaps you should examine what you "know" for errors. Works both ways!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I know they are wrong because of all the other evidence of a young earth. No, you avoid evidence like vampires avoid garlic. You "know" they are wrong because your religious belief is a filter--any shred of "evidence" supporting your beliefs is accepted uncritically, while any evidence disproving your beliefs is ignored, obfuscated, or misrepresented. You are doing the exact opposite of science--religious apologetics.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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No Coyote, I've spent a lot of time here showing evidence from geology and population genetics that the standard timing of the Old Earth and the ToE is wrong. Nothing to do with religion. 1) No one other than adherents of a particular narrow brand of religion advocates the things you do. 2) The real world evidence is all against the claims you make. 3) You tell us the bible is the highest and only form of evidence you'll accept. Conclusion--you are doing religious apologetics, the exact opposite of science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I don't need to talk to Geologists, I can go talk to ordinary people. Not if you want to learn about geology...Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
but as for the overall arguments I defend I stand by them. There are only two and I've thought them through on my own, not defending them secondhand Except for the whole dating issue. You avoid that totally. Probably because it disproves the whole YEC position and you have no rebuttal.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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The dating issue can't disprove all the evidence I've mustered. But it has!
All the dating methods are questionable, not established with anything like the certainty you bestow on them. Read those several threads RAZD dedicated to dating. They show you are wrong and conclusively show the YEC model is false. You may cry, "Assumptions" and "Uncertainty" all you want, but that's just wishful thinking on your part. The evidence is in and it shows we live on an old earth.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
There aren't any layers in any version of the geological column as small as your Red Lake, the layers forming in which are also no doubt not anywhere near as flat either. None of that matters as the dating issue completely disproves YEC. You keep ignoring it, or hand-waving it away but it won't go away! Facts are pesky little things and must be dealt with, much as you may be inconvenienced by them.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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We also have other genetic samples; Oetzi is a great example and he would have been a contemporary of Adam which would place him pre-Biblical Flood as well and with Oetzi we gained gentic evidence of humans as well as animals and plants from the same period and environment. I have evidence from my own archaeological investigations linking mdDNA at 5300 years ago to modern descendants in the same area. That alone disproves a global flood in the past 5300 years. My colleagues have a lot of samples that are older that do the same thing. And, I have two samples being analyzed that date to 7600 years ago--we'll see what they produce. In other words, there is data disproving the flood all over the place, and even my research in one limited area of the US can find it.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You don't have evidence, that's the point I keep making, you have a lot of imaginative conjurings. Apparently you all don't know the difference. Actually we do know the difference. We certainly have no trouble recognizing "imaginative conjurings" in what you post, as we see them on a daily basis.
Facts are facts and we share those but the Old Earth interpretations are not scientifically valid, just one speculative guess on top of another called science, big big shuck. A theory is the single best explanation for a given set of facts. It needs to explain all of the facts and be contradicted by no relevant facts. That is what we have, and what you are lacking. You have belief in ancient tribal myths and dogma which does not explain all the facts and is contradicted by a huge number of relevant facts. But because what you have is a belief you are not free to change--you must instead try to deny, ignore, or otherwise obfuscate the facts. Unfortunately for you your opinions do not change the facts--they remain the pesky little things they always were. As for different interpretations, certain facts require specific interpretations and can't support alternative interpretations. That is a real problem for YECs as the facts they use don't support their interpretations and the facts they deny, ignore and obfuscate support the standard scientific interpretation. All of this leads to the kinds of debate we are seeing in this thread and elsewhere.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
But you don't, coyote. ... So you believe.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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