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Author Topic:   Health 4 Life~The Science Behind Consumption
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 128 (817565)
08-18-2017 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2017 11:52 PM


Re: Science & Emotions
OK I'll say you are 10%. I also looked at pics of elite runners who claim low body fat in order to compare.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2017 11:52 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 128 (830454)
03-29-2018 9:39 PM


March To The Future
I am officially taking my arguments, journaling, and attempts at success over to this old topic.
First, a statement updating my mental focus from where I relapsed last July:
I had 365 days under my belt. My brain had healed and I felt strong, but I also felt as if I deserved some sort of reward for accomplishing what I had done. So I allowed myself to gamble. At first, it was just a lapse....the brain did not suddenly change back to where it was before, and if you look up my earlier posts in this very thread, you will see where I substituted my Healthy 4 Life program in place of focusing on continued gambling sobriety.
I went 21 days on the low carb diet and became a fat burner rather than a sugar burner....but again made the same mistake and allowed myself to enjoy the carbohydrates after I had just achieved the 21 days. So I began to relapse...and it snowballed! I began to gamble again, and I lost the healing that my brain had gained in the past year. 5 months later, in mid-December 2017, I finally was able to start my sobriety over again. Today is Day # 101 in gambling sobriety and Day # 11 in healthy eating. The conversations that I started over in Faiths plant-based thread will be continued here.
(I know you guys don't trust nor watch videos, but in this one Dr.Fung defends his science on the matter)
I see my Endocrinologist Thursday. Let the debate begin! I honestly don't believe that the science employed in the traditional approach to dealing with Type II is sound---they are trained to treat a number rather than look at the big picture.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : added

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 128 (830481)
03-31-2018 10:21 AM


Low Carb Dieting
Though I will admit that Granny Magda presented a good argument that partially debunked Dr.Rosedales talk which I presented in faiths thread, I remain quite convinced that the overall science in low carb dieting and in reduced need for insulin is my best course of action regarding my approach to my lifestyle, my diet, and my Type II Diabetes. Make no mistake---I have done my homework on this matter. Allow me to explain the facts---(not wild theories) regarding my own individual physiology.
Many years ago, roughly the year 2000, I was diagnosed as a borderline Type II Diabetic. For those of you who do not know, Type I Diabetes--where the pancreas produces no insulin whatsoever---is a totally different disease than Type II Diabetes, characterized by insulin resistance in the body. I had read some of what Diabetes is and does and can do to the body---but I was still unaware of the strength of the disease and what it meant for my responsibility at controlling my own blood sugars. I was the one who, back then, advised my own Doctor that I wanted to take supplemental long acting insulin---the theory being that it would preserve my pancreas from burning out. For better or worse I have always been a rebel in regards to my own health---and in retrospect, it was likely a mistake that I allowed that prescription. As normally happens, I was in a state of denial for many years regarding my responsibility at managing my own disease. I wanted a magic bullet and a shortcut For many years, my A1C readings were as high as 13. Damage was occurring in my lower limbs and throughout my body and the insulin resistance began to increase.
So when I go to see the Doctors, what did they do? They took tests, looked at my readings, and continued prescribing insulin---even upping the dosage and adding Humalog(short-acting insulin before meals) !!!!
As a layman, I had read the official approach that the ADA recommends---it is not nearly as extreme as a low carb diet can be and likely would have been better for me than the insulin, but I loved my food and I wanted to eat what I wanted to eat--for many years. I am a voracious reader, however---and I don't simply read what so-called alternative medicine snake oil gurus sell. Sime of them stumble on to sound science anyway. (Like Mercola) who hosted Dr.Fung on his podcast. For his part, Dr.Fung is only guilty of selling books---I see no evidence that his science is at all bad. The man knows what he is talking about.
He founded Toronto based Intensive Dietary Managment and I know what you guys are gonna see--lots of testimonials and selling books---not to mention that the program is not cheap---though I would argue that traditional medicine is not cheap either---and my wisdom tells me that getting off of insulin or cutting way back is a winning strategy.
I can explain the science in my own words now.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 03-31-2018 11:44 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 128 (830493)
03-31-2018 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by PaulK
03-31-2018 11:44 AM


Re: Low Carb Dieting
The Doctor(s) whom I had at the time were not endocrinologists and did not manage the decision making process but rather honored my choice to start the insulin. In retrospect, using the insulin actually increased my insulin resistance. Had I known then what I know now, I could have reversed my diabetes with at most metformin alone. (and diet) but I managed for a few years without abnormally high blood sugars... As for Dr.Fung vs mainstream, two of the highest regarded endocrinologists in Denver, one of whom is my own, advocate the pharmaceuticals and the insulin when needed. They have one goal: Lowering the AlC. They rightly assert that the high blood sugars are what cause the damage.
For several years, my A1C readings were frightful.
11/20/2012- 9.0
6/13/2013-10.5
1/4/2014-13.0
7/28/2014-11.0
02/17/2015-7.2
09/10/2015-8.3
04/02/2016-7.1
10/24/2016-9.1(after I lost my job)
5/17/2017-8.4
12/08/2017-7.3
And I go in on Thursday for the latest number, after I have taken control of my eating and medicines both.
PaulK writes:
If the doctors decided you needed more insulin later, it might be because your disease had worsened to that point. Or they might be honoring your decision to use insulin, or they might have misjudged the situation, assuming that you required insulin, because you were taking it.
I am certainly not convinced that Fung is right in any area where he disagrees with mainstream medical science.
Many people get along just fine on moderate insulin and the ADA Diet. Human nature being what it is, many people often cheat, however. I was one of them. For a few years, this works ok as one can simply increase insulin in order to maintain control. I have always taken control of my health and medicine, (or lost control) just like others have done.
The only drawback to Dr. Fungs approach is that few people are disciplined enough to eliminate potatoes and starches from their diet. If they choose to keep them, they will require more insulin. Doctors are trained to manage a number and prescribe what it takes to achieve that number. They can give nutritional advice, but most patients would rather have their cake and their shots rather than less shots and no cake.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 03-31-2018 11:44 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 04-05-2018 8:29 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 128 (830560)
04-03-2018 2:48 AM


Caloric vs Endocrine Theories
Just because its a video does not mean that it is not informative and full of sound research. I send these to my Endocrinologist as well...she and I will talk on Thursday.
Already after 2 weeks on my lower carb lifestyle I have dropped 10 pounds and have a lower resting heart rate. The verdict will be when I find out my A1C on Thursday.
Also, I am getting feeling back in my feet and my legs have decreased swelling. My hunch is paying off.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(3)
Message 65 of 128 (830737)
04-05-2018 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
03-31-2018 12:37 PM


At The Endocrinologist.
Today is Day 108 in Gambling and the 5th official day of my low carb eating program.(though I've been doing it off and on since March 15th) and i'm finally burning fat efficiently. So today, I went to see my Endocrinologist at Denver Endo. As noted above, my prior blood sugar readings, on full insulin plus Trulicity, were always above 7 and once as high as 13. Today I informed the Doctor that I had cut my insulin dose in half and also quit taking Trulicity. My A1C came back at 6.3! (Normal is 5.5-6.0)
She asked me what I had done and I told her about my Lo Carb diet approach plus Dr.Jason Fung and the theory that insulin causes insulin resistance. She told me to keep doing what I was doing, with one provision: For two weeks I need to take my blood four times a day to check my sugar pattern.
Conclusions:
  • Just because a Doctor sells books does not preclude him from knowing medical science.
  • My intuition was pretty good concerning my solution.
  • I am responsible for my health and know my body better than the Doctors do in some cases, though it is also wise to have them monitor my progress.
    I go back again in 3 months, and I eagerly await the results of how much my neuropathy can heal by then.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 63 by Phat, posted 03-31-2018 12:37 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 66 by Phat, posted 04-07-2018 12:03 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 66 of 128 (830785)
    04-07-2018 12:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
    04-05-2018 8:29 PM


    Where Do I Go From Here?
    My bloodwork results hav come back and in every measure I am on the road to improvement except that my blood pressure is up a bit. Since the fat burning and fueling with ketones over glucose has only just begun, my next plan is to get some consistency under my belt and maintain strict blood sugar control. The Doctors and I again disagree, though I can understand how they are medically liable for giving the best advice that real-world science offers. For example, she wants me to take Lipitor. I have taken it in the past, and although it does control my LDL very well (targeting a number) it has many side effects that I dont particularly like. This last blood test came back with my LDL under 100 (goal) at 93 without the Lipitor, so I figure why even take it?
    I'll let her know my decision.(they document all of my decisions in their records)
    Their basic argument is that nobody can live on a low carb intermittent fasting approach for their entire lives and that the reality of an honest lifestyle has its normal diet (that Tangle talks about) with its days of birthday cake, carbs, and as a result needed insulin. It is how they are taught, and I suspect that they receive funds from the pharmaceutical companies for conducting surveys and trials on various prescriptions. Quite honestly, my track record over 5 years regarding carbs has been both good and bad, as they say. My argument, however, is that I can learn to live (and relish) a low carb diet for life, and that it will give my body time to heal by reducing the need for insulin ages the body and just as my friend in Greece did, I will eventually gain back much of my insulin sensitivity and will only then be able to cheat once in awhile at a special event like a wedding or birthday. (Right now if I eat carbs, my legs and feet hurt and begin to swell and I feel like crap!)
    While my weight dropped from 245 to 234 in under a month, it is too soon to determine the long-range ramifications of these relatively sudden changes.
    Ringo tells me to watch out for confirmation bias, and I need to focus on reality over fantasy. Just yesterday I was daydreaming of the time 25 years ago when I could ride my bicycle 70 miles in a day and when I was younger and felt much stronger than I do now. Reality suggests that I will never become young again.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 65 by Phat, posted 04-05-2018 8:29 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 67 of 128 (830800)
    04-07-2018 3:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
    07-26-2017 8:50 AM


    I may switch Doctors
    I did some research and found a local Doctor who is more in line with what I believe.
    Dr.Jeffrey Gerber
    He is, like Dr.Fung, an online personality, but it appears that he understands the same science that I have been studying, and I think he would be a better fit for my eccentric and rebellious nature.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 07-26-2017 8:50 AM NoNukes has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 68 by Tangle, posted 04-07-2018 4:36 PM Phat has replied
     Message 71 by ringo, posted 04-08-2018 2:35 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 69 of 128 (830810)
    04-07-2018 4:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 68 by Tangle
    04-07-2018 4:36 PM


    Re: I may switch Doctors
    in this area of study, I am no dummy. I have learned a lot about the science through multiple sources. Additionally, I had a friend who resensitized his insulin response and who lost 100 pounds. You can't refute the science behind low carb, non-insulin approaches to Type II.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by Tangle, posted 04-07-2018 4:36 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 70 by Tangle, posted 04-08-2018 4:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 72 of 128 (830940)
    04-09-2018 11:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 71 by ringo
    04-08-2018 2:35 PM


    Re: I may switch Doctors
    ringo writes:
    Getting a second opinion doesn't mean Google's.
    My but you are a snippy one! He was recommended to me by a friend who has lost 120 pounds, and was also a Type II Diabetic shackled to many unneeded medications and who now is healthy and living in Greece 50 yards from the beach. (His late Father lived in a village and willed the property to him)
    I have set up an appointment on May 30th with Dr.Jeffrey Gerber. His credentials seem to check out, and all that I see uniques about him vs my old Doctor is that he is knowledgeable as to the correct science involved in treating Type II Diabetes vs the old school drugs and medical approach---though if needed he can also prescribe medication. One reason that I brought this whole diabetes/exercise/diet personal problem up here at EvC is that many of you have an education, as do many of the Doctors who are, in fact, wrong regarding treatment of this disease. It is time to face the evidence and quit looking up to science blindly while also dismissing the newer information as quack science. I see the new Doctor May 30th at which time I will again have blood work done as well as advice on which medicines to keep and which to discontinue. The numbers don't lie. My blood sugar is at the best that it has been in 10 years thanks to my own initiative and taking charge of my medications myself...but I want a Doctor on board who understands the science which I am pursuing rather than one who is in bed with the pharmaceutical industry.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by ringo, posted 04-08-2018 2:35 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by ringo, posted 04-09-2018 12:04 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 74 of 128 (830948)
    04-09-2018 12:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 73 by ringo
    04-09-2018 12:04 PM


    Re: I may switch Doctors
    Ive given the traditional endocrinologists a try for 3 years. They incorrectly prescribed insulin and actually caused me to become more insulin resistant. They refused to listen to me when I advocated the lower insulin low carb approach and wanted to sign me up for studies conducted by the pharmaceutical industry.
    Explaining the science behind the keto diet | 9news.com
    This is my new Doctor on TV. I am going with him and his posse.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 73 by ringo, posted 04-09-2018 12:04 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by ringo, posted 04-09-2018 12:29 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    (1)
    Message 76 of 128 (830962)
    04-09-2018 2:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
    04-09-2018 12:29 PM


    The Electric Mayhem
    Actually no, it does not. There are many examples of competent people who also, for one reason or another, seek to be in the public eye. One cannot assume that just because a professional is in the media and is, in fact, advertising themselves or their profession that this inevitably means that they are a huckster.
    I know what you are thinking, however. To wit:

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 75 by ringo, posted 04-09-2018 12:29 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 77 by ringo, posted 04-10-2018 11:35 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 78 of 128 (831003)
    04-10-2018 11:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
    04-10-2018 11:35 AM


    Re: The Electric Mayhem
    true
    Anyway, I'm off today so I'm going to the health club. My self-improvement program continues....and I am doing everything that known science has to offer.
    I will see this new Doctor May 30th and we can re-evaluate the competency then.
    Edited by Phat, : added

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 77 by ringo, posted 04-10-2018 11:35 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 79 of 128 (831182)
    04-13-2018 5:11 PM


    Autophagy, Lo Carb Dieting, and Intermittent Fasting
    Intermittent Fasting can be a useful tool for allowing controlled Autophagy in order to rebuild the cells into better and healthier versions. It should, of course, be supervised by a Doctor.
    I am taking my rebuilding process very slow and purposeful. Through trial and error, I am learning what to eat and what not to eat, how often, and in what balance. I am slowly breaking my carbohydrate addiction that caused the continued insulin resistance(along with prescribed insulin) which led me to my diseased state. As of yesterday, I weighed 232, but I am not so concerned with losing weight as I am with feeling and being healthier. I expect my final weight should be roughly what it was in High School---205-210.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    Replies to this message:
     Message 80 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2018 5:27 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 81 of 128 (831239)
    04-14-2018 8:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 80 by Tangle
    04-13-2018 5:27 PM


    Re: Autophagy, Lo Carb Dieting, and Intermittent Fasting
    I'm not convinced this is a crap approach. Of course balancer and moderation are key concepts, as is medical supervision, but the practice is gaining more of a widespread acceptance even in the medical community.
    Intermittent fasting: Fad or science-based diet?
    Author Jennifer Huber
    Contrast this article with another article from Standford:
    Breaking down diabetes: New controversy on blood sugar lowering
    You may have had some good arguments on the religious stuff, but you have not done your homework on this topic. Note the quote from the second article:
    quote:
    At face value, the ADA argument appears to favor drug companies selling the newest diabetes medications. The statement suggests that low blood sugar (a common side effect of many diabetes medications) is not really a problem as long as the newest medications are used, often at a cost of $500 to $700 per month for each drug.
    The debate centers on natural methods for reducing blood glucose versus drug-related methods. The natural approach is better, in my opinion.
    You have advocated a rational, balanced dietary approach...but the science shows that a Type II diabetic cannot process carbohydrates normally. The ADA recommends diet and exercise, and science has shown that the lo-carb diet is the best one for type II diabetes...some have even argued that the so-called food pyramid was derived only after intense lobbying from the carbohydrate industry.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 80 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2018 5:27 PM Tangle has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 04-14-2018 9:46 AM Phat has replied

      
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