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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 2213 of 2887 (831783)
04-24-2018 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2199 by Faith
04-24-2018 12:53 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
The tracks represent creatures fleeing from the Flood across the latest sediment deposit by the latest wave of the rising water, other things burrowed trying to escape, other things were floated there.
OK, so let me see if I've got this straight. The fountains of the deep are breaking up. A wave of water containing huge volumes of mud, trees, dead sinners, and so on, rushes across a family of woodchucks. They hang out for a while, wait for the sediment to settle out enough for them to walk on it, maybe dig a burrow or two, pinch a loaf, that kind of thing. Then, once things have died down a bit, they wander off - underwater of course because, mmmm, flood - looking for, oh, I don't know, maybe air or something?
Good story, Faith. Couple loose ends maybe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2199 by Faith, posted 04-24-2018 12:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2214 by jar, posted 04-24-2018 2:21 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied
 Message 2218 by Faith, posted 04-24-2018 7:29 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(3)
Message 2239 of 2887 (831823)
04-24-2018 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2218 by Faith
04-24-2018 7:29 PM


Re: The Imaginary Fossil Order is a false interpretation
Some think they were underwater volcanoes...I don't have any idea ...Something was released from the sea floor...I picture them creating a lot of turbulence...perhaps causing the water to rise, but then that would mean leaving a vauum below so I'm not sure. Perhaps that vacuum is what the Flood waters receded into after the sea floor collapsed...I don't know how there's any way to know even what the term means.
Well that certainly clears things up.
Who are "some", and why do they think a description of fountains or springs in the context of a flood would imply anything about lava?
What is this "sea floor collapsed" event you're talking about? When did that happen? How do you know?
If the water was pulling a vacuum as it left, what was making it leave? Mind of its own? Just being cantankerous? Flunked physics 101?
"I don't have any idea"
No shit.
It was rising from all sides of course, and its waves continued, reaching onto the land and receding and returning. High tides push them up farther and so on.
Tides?
"...all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened." - Gen. 7:11
And you envision the tides being a player here? In a cataclysm that only had 40 days to cover "the high mountains of the earth" plus 15 cubits? Do you have any idea how much volume just that extra 15 cubits alone represent. The rate of water deposition required to add all this volume in 40 days make your scenario of tide and waves lapping at the heels of scampering animals ludicrous. And let's not even start considering the surf that would blow up across a world sized ocean.
Soon there is nothing but wet sediments beneath them. They leave tracks,
...some dinosaur nests are picked up and floated along...
So, never been to the beach either I gather. Missed that whole "waves washing away your footprints in the sands of time" meme?
Here's the flattest kind of wetland I've been able to find, and it's not exactly bare bald flat, it's got things growing on it, tracks could not be left on its surface.
Oops.
You're not even trying anymore, are you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2218 by Faith, posted 04-24-2018 7:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2249 by Faith, posted 04-24-2018 10:09 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(3)
Message 2261 of 2887 (831855)
04-25-2018 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 2252 by Faith
04-24-2018 11:15 PM


Re: Geological Column also known as Stratigraphic Column
...claiming that wetlands existed where there is now flat flat rock. He doesn't seem to have noticed that there is the same kind of terrain as the one I posted in his very own picture. Nobody seems to take into account how HUGE the extent of the rock strata actually are.
Are you actually suggesting that grass and plants preclude this environment from being compressed into a layer of flat rock? Is it your belief that the interface of 2 layers, buried, compressed, exposed by erosion, buried again, etc., represent the character of the surface of that material when it was literally on the surface and covered with living organisms?
Have you forgotten the hole we dug in the yard of your asylum? Remember how just a few inches down, the grass and trees and plants and dead bugs had turned into material that no longer looked like what it used to be?
You are giving the impression that you think that the next distinguishable layer will appear on top of this area overnight, with every hummock and blade of grass preserved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2252 by Faith, posted 04-24-2018 11:15 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2265 by NoNukes, posted 04-25-2018 12:52 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(3)
Message 2262 of 2887 (831856)
04-25-2018 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 2260 by herebedragons
04-25-2018 9:05 AM


Re: Geological Column also known as Stratigraphic Column
So it seems to me as if you are actually objecting to flood geology but attributing that objection to the mainstream geology without really understanding what you are objecting to. "Not Even Wrong."
It is the personification of Asimov's "shield of ignorance, proudly borne".
Edited by Capt Stormfield, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2260 by herebedragons, posted 04-25-2018 9:05 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 2406 of 2887 (832085)
04-29-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2307 by Faith
04-27-2018 8:31 PM


Re: Faith indulges in misrepresention again
There cannot have been any kind of landscape where there is now a layer of sedimentary rock, all there could have been is the wet sediment that eventually lithified.
And yet we show you photographs of wetlands, where sediments are being laid down, that are covered with both plant and animal life.
Quit. Lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2307 by Faith, posted 04-27-2018 8:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 2407 of 2887 (832086)
04-29-2018 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2313 by Pollux
04-28-2018 12:05 AM


Re: Geoscience research Institute
...wonder why Faith does not show...
Dishonesty. Simple, brainwashed dishonesty. As has been pointed out so many times, the honestly thoughtful religious community moved beyond this subject centuries ago. Coming from an SDA background, I understand that the essential prerequisite to this kind of ignorance is lying to yourself about yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2313 by Pollux, posted 04-28-2018 12:05 AM Pollux has seen this message but not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 2408 of 2887 (832087)
04-29-2018 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2321 by Faith
04-28-2018 2:50 AM


Re: Faith indulges in misrepresention again
...such things as weird ideas about fossils being put there by God instead of being naturally occurring phenomena.
Why is this weird in a Biblical context? The entire flood story is premised on the supernatural intervention of a God. Why on earth would you need to explain it in terms of naturally occurring phenomena? Did your god only have one miracle on the shelf? He got to start it rolling but then ran out of jurisdiction? Or does your still small voice recognize that you need to kick sand over the absurdity of your basic premise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2321 by Faith, posted 04-28-2018 2:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 2415 of 2887 (832096)
04-29-2018 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2358 by Faith
04-28-2018 8:36 PM


The "fountains of the deep" are not MY idea, they are the biblical description of something that occurred at the start of the Flood. I don't know what they were but I know some people think they were volcanoes.
Only people who are dishonest about the flat earth beliefs of the Biblical writers.
I doubt anyone here has any doubt what is meant by "fountains of the deep" and "floodgates of heaven". The people who wrote the book viewed the world exactly as it is described in Genesis - as a flat place covered by a dome with water above and below.
I don't know about anyone else, but the reason I play with you is the hilarity of watching you pretend you don't understand the plain word of God. Say, is that a cock crowing that I hear? Was that the second or third time?
Edited by Capt Stormfield, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2358 by Faith, posted 04-28-2018 8:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 2464 of 2887 (832158)
04-30-2018 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2462 by Faith
04-30-2018 9:51 AM


Re: Faith indulges in misrepresention again
...but I think so much of what you say really isn't worth thinking about.
Well, if there is one skill you do possess, not thinking would be it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2462 by Faith, posted 04-30-2018 9:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 2466 of 2887 (832161)
04-30-2018 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2462 by Faith
04-30-2018 9:51 AM


Re: Faith indulges in misrepresention again
Simply crushing...
Where on earth did you get the idea that crushing is the only force applied to sedimentary layers as they are formed, and during the time it takes to add the layers comprising the arrangement we see today? In order for there to be a demarcation between layers, there was necessarily activity or physical disturbance at that surface.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2462 by Faith, posted 04-30-2018 9:51 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2489 by Percy, posted 04-30-2018 6:34 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 2504 of 2887 (832217)
05-01-2018 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2489 by Percy
04-30-2018 6:34 PM


Re: Faith indulges in misrepresention again
I'm not sure what you're saying...
I was attempting to point out to Faith that the crushing force that causes lithification is not the only force acting on the surface of a sedimentary deposit during its formation or in subsequent years. A nice sediment filled swamp, for example, might be covered by a mudslide or pyroclastic flow that would remove surface features, or might later have the layers above it scoured off and be abraded smooth by a glacier before subsequently being covered again.
As near as I can tell, she envisions something or other gently fluttering down on top of a sediment, preserving every hummock and puddle and blade of grass. Her view on this is as detached from reality as her vision of rodents scampering on a beach-like surface as the gentle waves of the worst storm in earth's history tear the surface from what she herself describes as a lushly enfoliated earth.
I'd suggest she google some photos of both storm surf and the aftermath of a tsunami in a treed area if she thinks raindrops and the imprints of little mouse toes would somehow be preserved in the smooth, virgin sands of a beach between the comings and goings of gently lapping waves, but of course that would be a waste of time.
Edited by Capt Stormfield, : typos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2489 by Percy, posted 04-30-2018 6:34 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 2505 of 2887 (832218)
05-01-2018 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2497 by NoNukes
04-30-2018 10:51 PM


Re: Would the planet heat up too much?
That would be stupid.
...he said without a hint of irony, frustration, or sarcasm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2497 by NoNukes, posted 04-30-2018 10:51 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 2821 of 2887 (832653)
05-07-2018 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2749 by Percy
05-05-2018 7:32 AM


Re: The fossils as evidence for the Flood
...of Faith's scenario...
The major problem with this is that if sediments came from the land and then were returned to the land, then if the depth of sediments after the flood was sufficient to lithify them, then the depth of the sediments before the flood was also sufficient to lithify them. This means the antediluvian land sediments were mostly rock and could not have been washed away into the sea by 40 days of rain, or even 1000 days of rain.
I think it is safe to conclude that Faith is unable to visualize the physical reality that would be represented by her words on this or any subject. As others have pointed out, she is unable to visualize in 3 dimensions, and, as she has demonstrated with her incomprehensible use of the word "landscape", uses certain words as a repetitive and comforting mantra dissociated from their conventional meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2749 by Percy, posted 05-05-2018 7:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2822 by Faith, posted 05-07-2018 11:08 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(3)
Message 2823 of 2887 (832655)
05-07-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2760 by Faith
05-05-2018 12:00 PM


Re: the strata again
"Earth" can't become a sedimentary rock; "soil" can't become a sedimentary rock.
I've done a fair bit of dry stack masonry with sedimentary rocks. One of the ways you read the grain of the rocks is by looking at the orientation of the inclusions in the rock. Under magnification, all kinds of material other than sand are visible. The orientation of this material, which is squished flat, tells us which plane the rock will split along.
On a lucky day, you might even reveal a fossilized animal amongst all the fossilized bits of "dirt" and "soil".
As usual, your words have no connection to reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2760 by Faith, posted 05-05-2018 12:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2824 by Faith, posted 05-07-2018 11:24 AM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 2828 of 2887 (832663)
05-07-2018 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2824 by Faith
05-07-2018 11:24 AM


Re: the strata again
"Fossilized bits" is not what I was talking about, but about a whole lot of "earth" and "soil" supposedly incorporated into the sediment as part of the rock itself.
What, precisely, do you think "earth" is composed of?
What, precisely, do you imagine it would look like after being compressed under a few billion tons?
Did you dig that hole in lawn yet? Notice the smooth transition from grass to roots to dirt to "less dirty" dirt?
ABE: Apropos my earlier message re sandstone: When dealing with sandstone, it is common to find areas that are more brown and crumbly and referred to as "rotten" because they lack structural integrity. Almost as if the sediments in that place had a higher than normal organic ("soil") content.
Edited by Capt Stormfield, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2824 by Faith, posted 05-07-2018 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2832 by Faith, posted 05-07-2018 6:55 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
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