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Author Topic:   Hubble's Law Disproves Young Earth Creationism
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 36 (832977)
05-15-2018 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Calvin
05-14-2018 10:00 PM


How do you reconcile a belief that the earth is less than 10,000 years old with Hubble's Law?

I think you can reconcile the two things with a version of last Thursdayism. The universe was created 6000 years ago with the stars and galaxies and space expanding at just about their current rates in just about their current positions, where just about means the minor adjustment for 6000 years.

In short, it is enough to question your extrapolation to the time when everything was in one big giant cosmic atom. Any creationist worth the time to debate over the issue would raise that issue.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Calvin, posted 05-14-2018 10:00 PM Calvin has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 36 (832987)
05-15-2018 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Calvin
05-15-2018 5:47 PM


Well, there's a reason last Thursdayism isn't scientificaly accepted. While it's possible, it's also a positive claim that requires the last Thursdayist to meet their burden of proof.

Actually, for the purposes of this discussion, it is you who are claiming that a single fact disproves creationism, so it is up to you to provide a reason for dismissing the Creatonist claims.

On the other hand, if, as is actually the case, other evidence beyond the Hubble constant is available, then you would have a much better argument.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Calvin, posted 05-15-2018 5:47 PM Calvin has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 36 (833003)
05-16-2018 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Calvin
05-15-2018 7:02 PM


Re: look at the responses.
It disproves a young earth, but only if we already assume that the big bang is true. If someone would like to contest this I can provide evidence for the big bang theory.

So then you admit that your single piece of evidence does the trick claim is not correct?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Calvin, posted 05-15-2018 7:02 PM Calvin has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 36 (833032)
05-16-2018 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Calvin
05-16-2018 1:09 AM


Fortunately, we have mountains more evidence for an old Earth. If you'd like I could provide some

There is not a single participant in this thread who thinks either the universe or the earth are not billions of years old.

However, I and others also know a bad argument when we see one. The fact that the universe is currently expanding is consistent with the universe being old, but it is not sufficient to prove that.

I would not let a creationist get away with an argument of that nature, and I would apply the same standard to folk who argue a position I agree with. Hubble's law does not disprove Young Earth Creationism. More evidence than that is required.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Calvin, posted 05-16-2018 1:09 AM Calvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Calvin, posted 05-16-2018 5:35 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 36 (833103)
05-17-2018 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Calvin
05-16-2018 5:35 PM


But I currently still do think it can prove the age of the universe to be billions of years old.

Science does not prove things. So no, you cannot. The evidence supports a billion-year-old universe and rejects a young, several thousand year old one. None of us can do better than that.

In any event, a YEC is not going to spot you the big bang.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Calvin, posted 05-16-2018 5:35 PM Calvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Calvin, posted 05-17-2018 1:30 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 36 (833105)
05-17-2018 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Calvin
05-17-2018 1:30 AM


ou're right of course, science never proves thing, it only selects the best model to explain our observations. But I think my op is fairly strong evidence that an old universe is exactly that.

In any case, it's kind of moot since no one here seems to be a YEC.

I don't think it is moot. But since science does not prove things, but rather establishes thing to some degree of certainty, that means one lone fact cannot serve as "the evidence" that the universe is old. No one fact does that.

In my view, the best evidence that the universe is old is that there are old things in it, but establishing the age of things like the earth, the sun, and the other stars requires a systematic study of various evidence.

Given that reality, you should know that you oversold your original claim. And that does matter even if there are no Creationists here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Calvin, posted 05-17-2018 1:30 AM Calvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Calvin, posted 05-17-2018 2:30 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 35 of 36 (833130)
05-17-2018 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Stile
05-17-2018 9:50 AM


And we understand that you're not likely to get much YEC-response to your post. Possibly because of lack-of-ability to properly deal with your argument, or possibly because of lack-of-YEC-believers-willingness-to-participate at all (maybe even simply because there's not many of them left!)

Not strong enough in my opinion. The number of folks who
1. Accept Creationism
2. Are not utterly clueless with respect to science knowledge
3. Willing to argue about it on the Internet

Has to be a vanishingly small percentage of YEC folk. Most of the folks who could be convinced are not YEC anymore.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Stile, posted 05-17-2018 9:50 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Stile, posted 05-17-2018 10:40 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
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