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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2073 of 4573 (834813)
06-12-2018 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2068 by caffeine
06-12-2018 12:35 PM


Re: Trump accuses Canada of trying to burn White house in 1812
But my bigger question is whether Trump is actually right for once. Do American producers face bigger barriers in exportng to Europe or Canada than vice versa? Or is Trump once again talking out of his arse?
Just speaking about Canada, I would note the following.
1. The US does not have a trade deficit with Canada. Trump has stopped claiming that this is the case after he bragged about making a bogus accusation of such during a meeting with Trudeau.
2. Both the US and Canada have in the past accused the other of protectionism, and both states have implemented tariffs while complaining about the other. Trump currently cites the tariffs that Canada applies to imported dairy products but does not mention our tariffs on lumber products. Both countries give government subsidies to their agricultural sectors. Without a doubt, there is protectionism on both sides.
3. The accusations that Trudeau somehow stabbed Trump in the back is patently ridiculous. Trudeau's response to US tariffs predates the G7 meeting.
With respect to Europe? Well, Europe is not a country, and I have to admit to being clueless about the state of trade between the individual countries involved. However, comments like, "There are too many German cars in the US" are complete horse ca-ca. An imbalance in trade in a single commodity does not mean necessarily mean that Americans are losing. In part, it indicates that Americans buy more stuff than Europeans buy because they have a bit more money. In another part, it is an indication of whose cars are seen to be a better value. Making great cars is not an unfair trade practice. And it is more than useless to pick out one industry without noting whatever advantages that the US has in other sectors. Americans sell lots of cigarettes. Yet we strongly discourage our own population from smoking.
Even if we decide that it is better not that we not trade with Europe because it costs American jobs, that does not make our allies evil. It makes them businessmen who we want to deal with less. The tenor of the comments by Trump as well as the "special place in Hell" comment from Navarro are completely out of place. For those tempted to defend Navarro, please note that he has already apologized.
I'll further note that if you let Trump tell it. Apparently, North Korea and Russia are our buddies while France, Germany, and Canada are enemies who might want to burn the White House again. Surely, that isn't correct.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2068 by caffeine, posted 06-12-2018 12:35 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2077 by caffeine, posted 06-13-2018 2:43 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2078 of 4573 (834843)
06-13-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2074 by Stile
06-13-2018 11:39 AM


Re: Reassessing Trump
I'm starting to suspect that it's not impossible for the G7 to kick out the US.
I am guessing that there will not be a need to do this. It may well be that Trump simply stops coming. This time he arrived late, missed a bunch of stuff on purpose, and then left early. What's next?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2074 by Stile, posted 06-13-2018 11:39 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2079 by ringo, posted 06-13-2018 4:31 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2082 of 4573 (834888)
06-14-2018 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2081 by PaulK
06-14-2018 12:59 PM


Re: New York sued the Trump Foundation
quote:
The lawsuit alleges that the foundation paid $100,000 (75,000) to settle legal claims against Mr Trump's Mar-A-Lago resort, $158,000 to settle claims against one of his golf clubs, and $10,000 to purchase a painting of Mr Trump to hang at another of his golf clubs.
If these things are proven to be true, I still don't believe a single Republican member of Congress would give a rat's ass about what is obviously criminal activity.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2081 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2018 12:59 PM PaulK has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2110 of 4573 (835550)
06-24-2018 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2106 by Percy
06-24-2018 8:54 AM


Re: Shunning and Shaming as Tools Against Trump
Speaking of opposing Trump, I wasn't happy to learn that anyone living within a hundred miles of our national borders is in a zone where Border Patrol Agents have greater powers. This Zone includes all of New Hampshire where i live, and within the past week agents of the USCIS sep up road blocks on highways to check for illegal immigrants.
That area turns out to affect nearly 2/3 of the population of the US.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2106 by Percy, posted 06-24-2018 8:54 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2112 of 4573 (835570)
06-25-2018 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2106 by Percy
06-24-2018 8:54 AM


Re: Shunning and Shaming as Tools Against Trump
But the solution is staring the Republicans in the face, literally. We need immigrants. Lots of them. Immigrants are mostly young, they follow the law (better than your average American), and they pay their taxes. To potential immigrants along our southern border I say, "Hola! Bienvenidos a nuestro pais." And they'd smile at my accent.
Unfortunately, most of those immigrants south of the border are brown folks who are hated and feared by large segments of Republican voters. The obvious solution is simply socially unacceptable to them, and their elected leaders run things.
After having to back down from snatching babies from the teats of their moms, Trump's rhetoric has become increasingly stark and hateful, with the racism covered by ever thinner layers of reason. If the 2018 elections turn out to favor Trump and his allies, I fear that any hope for solutions to our aging population problem will simply be gone.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2106 by Percy, posted 06-24-2018 8:54 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2115 of 4573 (835674)
06-27-2018 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2114 by PaulK
06-27-2018 2:34 PM


Re: More bad news
"a moderate conservative Justice will be replaced a hard right winger - chosen more for politics than for anything else."
Confirmation is a strictly Senate process. I hold out no hope that Democrats will have any input. Ah, what could have been...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2114 by PaulK, posted 06-27-2018 2:34 PM PaulK has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2136 of 4573 (835882)
07-03-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2135 by Stile
07-03-2018 9:23 AM


Re: A Disaster of a Day
But if a large percentage aren't paying the fees - isn't this an indication that the union itself is charging too much for the services it is rendering to it's members?
No, not paying the fee isn't an indication that the service is too dear, particularly when the alternative is to let someone else pay.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2135 by Stile, posted 07-03-2018 9:23 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2137 by Stile, posted 07-03-2018 12:52 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2138 of 4573 (835888)
07-03-2018 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2137 by Stile
07-03-2018 12:52 PM


Re: A Disaster of a Day
Too dear?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I was implying that not paying meant the service wasn't dear enough (not good enough) for the payment.
Yes. I meant that the price was too high.
He gets a choice to pay union fees, which is obviously less money to him.
This is balanced by the union fighting for more benefits and more pay.
Except this is not the choice. The union negotiates as best they can. But non-union folks can now get the same deal for nothing. If they are long-sighted they may take into account that the union may fall if they don't pay, but they might act out of other motives and rely on other folks paying.
So there is no implication by not paying that the service is not worthwhile. That is, of course, one possibility, but not paying is not evidence that the service is not worthwhile.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2137 by Stile, posted 07-03-2018 12:52 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2139 by Stile, posted 07-03-2018 2:04 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2145 of 4573 (835989)
07-06-2018 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2144 by Minnemooseus
07-06-2018 12:50 AM


Re: Scott Pruitt resigns from EPA
Is there any way this can't be an improvement?
Nothing significant will change. The next dude will likely promote the same environmental/corporate policies that Pruitt did but will be a bit less of a crook. On the other hand, for all of his corruptness, Pruitt did not really steal all of that much. I don't expect that the access of corporate interests to the EPA will decline all or that there will be an increase in transparency.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2144 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-06-2018 12:50 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2173 of 4573 (836482)
07-18-2018 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2172 by marc9000
07-17-2018 5:38 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
While many here seem to base Christianity on a few cherry picks of New Testament teachings
Yikes. Talk about cherry picking...
Let's start with the most basic statement of faith and grace from Trump. Trump has stated that he does not regret not asking God for forgiveness for his sins. If you can find some way to make a Christian out of someone who departs from the absolute sine qua non of Christianity, well, I for one am not interested in debating the issue with you here.
S. I'm also not here to discuss evolutionist's versions of what Christianity is and who Christians are.
Right. I wonder what version it is that you would discuss?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2172 by marc9000, posted 07-17-2018 5:38 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 2186 of 4573 (836534)
07-18-2018 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2185 by marc9000
07-18-2018 7:07 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
My point was that he's energetic. He probably finished that up by mid-day and did some presidential business that afternoon - and evening. Maybe I've missed it, but I don't remember seeing this kind of energy from past presidents, often much younger than him.
This is your favorite argument. "I don't remember it, so let's assume it did not happen." I knew we'd see it again.
Considering the hatred most of the political left, including you, shows towards Trump, it might be time for you to realize that you no longer have a monopoly on that word. What has Trump done that has personally affected your life?
Why does bigotry have to affect me personally? Republicans and Democrats do appear to view bigotry quite differently. For left-leaning folk, bigotry is disqualifying for a public official. For right-leaning folks, at least based on you as the example, the response is to deflect and talk about the bigotry of others.
I'll have to admit that I can understand some of your points here. If Trump is delivering what you want, then your support is quite understandable. But I am also seeing from you, "well Obama did it too", I'd have to point out that you did not support Obama when he did those things.
I appreciate the time you took to respond. And despite my picking at what I see as the least well-supported parts of your response, there is plenty here to think about.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2185 by marc9000, posted 07-18-2018 7:07 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2188 by marc9000, posted 07-18-2018 7:42 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 2189 of 4573 (836537)
07-18-2018 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2188 by marc9000
07-18-2018 7:42 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
It's how voters make their decisions. If you disagree with the statement, I'd expect to see some documentation of high levels of energy from past presidents.
If they make decisions in this way, they are idiots. We know for a fact that Obama, for example, regularly took breaks to play basketball during the day and returned to work. For Trump, we are talking about riding around on a golf cart. No comparison.
But that is beside the point. What you are doing is throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks. If you are going to make the claim, you should vet it yourself and not rely on memory when you don't even check. It's just plain lazy.
ABE:
I re-read your original statement and I see that the idea that Trump returned to work after his workout is just something you guessed at without having any indication. That is even worse than lazy. It's flat out dishonest.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2188 by marc9000, posted 07-18-2018 7:42 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 2191 of 4573 (836539)
07-19-2018 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2190 by Percy
07-18-2018 9:22 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
Now you're creating yet a third definition of fake news, one that's primarily subjective and not of much use since by that definition there will be little agreement about what is and isn't fake news. It's not really a definition so much as a transparent justification for falsely casting aspersions.
marc9000's contribution is very informative. There is some meat in there, but for the most part, 9K confirms my worst expectations. Let me cite an example here:
marc9000 writes:
That's fake news, but many Christians like myself also have decided to consider tricky twists and distorts of the truth to also be fake news.
What 9K says here is that whatever he decides is distortion, and his criteria is easily revealed to be subjective and leaning towards whatever he already believes, is fake news. I don't know what would be a more substantial confirmation that the concept of fake news is fairly close to anything he believes isn't correct.
And how else could it be? How else can people buy into that "would" vs "wouldn't" explanation that Trump gave yesterday. An explanation that covered one sentence out of a speech full of throwing the FBI/CIA under the bus in Helsinki followed by doing exactly the same thing later on Hannity's show? How does one double negative explain all of that? Easy. The other reporting is fake even if we all saw Trump making those statements, it's all fake.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2190 by Percy, posted 07-18-2018 9:22 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2194 by Percy, posted 07-19-2018 7:42 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2220 by marc9000, posted 07-21-2018 8:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2200 of 4573 (836583)
07-19-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2199 by ringo
07-19-2018 1:09 PM


Re: But that is a trait that defines the Evangelical Fundamentalist
What about the people who didn't vote at all? If Clinton get a few more votes than Trump, she still didn't get a majority of the eligible voters.
Most voters did not vote for Trump. But your point is well taken. Quibbling about whether Trump is a mistake by 49 or 51 percent of Americans is not much defense against a pretty damning indictment.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2199 by ringo, posted 07-19-2018 1:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2201 by ringo, posted 07-19-2018 4:36 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2202 of 4573 (836600)
07-19-2018 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2195 by jar
07-19-2018 7:52 AM


Re: But that is a trait that defines the Evangelical Fundamentalist
But that is exactly how the people like Faith & Marc and the whole Christian Cult of Ignorance approach everything, particularly the Bible and Christianity.
For whatever this is worth, I know lots of fundamentalists, by which I mean folks who have similar Biblical beliefs to those expressed by Faith. Not a single one of those fundamentalists voted for Trump or supports him now.
My point here is that this stuff we are hearing is not required by Christianity. Instead what we are seeing is a bunch of Christians who are willing to emphasize those parts of their religious beliefs that align with their politics. marc9000 made a classic statement along these lines when he accused folks of "cherry picking" when they emphasize what Jesus taught rather than the lessons of the Old Testament. I am reminded of Conservapedia's effort to write their own Bible so that it excludes things not favored by conservatives such as the "let him cast the first stone" story.
I am of the belief that many folks will find that the Kingdom of God as talked about by Jesus is a bit too socialist for their liking.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2195 by jar, posted 07-19-2018 7:52 AM jar has not replied

  
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