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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: And if it suited you you would argue the exact opposite, that they only have to be Kings. In fact there is a distinction. Three are uprooted which surely means a brief reign at most. The practicalities of defeating three kings to claim the throne suggest as much as well.
quote: Funny that you haven’t bothered to correct this when it is clearly a Persian symbol, and your idea that particular image represents Babylon is your invention.
quote: That is an assumption and one that is far from certain. The very fact that we have only two beasts instead of four suggests that it may well be different.
quote: Ah yes, the fictional Darius the Mede. One of the reasons for thinking that Daniel was not written when it claims to have been written.
quote: This is all subjective interpretation. The interpretation of the statue is especially questionable. You could as easily argue it meant a threefold division as a twofold. I think I prefer the Medes for the second empire of the statue. That way you get (according to Daniel, not history) a sequence of four Empires each conquering and absorbing the next. Any other interpretation gets a bit messier. Also a short-lived Median Empire would better fit the claim that the second empire would be lesser than the first (Daniel 2:39) Of course this doesn’t fit your interpretation but it is clearly a valid interpretation.
quote: But the real issue is whether they are exactly the same. If the fourth beast is the Seleucids as I claim and if the iron and clay represents the variations in the strength of the Diadochi kingdoms then the same link applies. A strong Diadochi kingdom would be represented by iron. So to return to the main point, it is entirely possible that the second beast of Daniel 8 corresponds to the third and fourth beasts of Daniel 7. Thus this point does not rule out Antiochus as the little horn of Daniel 7.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Historically the Babylonian empire preceded the Persian empire. Its symbolism even if similar would have preceded Persia's. And the order of empires in the vision has to have Babylon preceding Persia.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The two empires of Daniel 8 are not an assumption, the ram is Medo Persia, I proved it, the shared symbolism is quite clear. and the goat is Alexander's Greece, and the four horns of the goat are still Greece.
I'll trust the Bible about Darius the Mede. Historians thought for a long time that no such people as the Hittites existed, then they finally discovered them. You are engaged in destroying known interpretations of the book of Daniel for no good reason. There's no reason to take anything you say seriously.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The prophecies are NOT "based on easily y understood symbolism," you totally missed the point.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: But - to point out the problems of interpretation again - Babylon doesn’t need to be in the Daniel 7 prophecy. But really shouldn’t this issue be on the main thread, not on a side branch created to point out that you chose to use a Persian image for Babylon ?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Babylon IS in the Daniel 7 prophecy, therefore it needs to be there. God doesn't make mistakes.
Babylon preceded Persia. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: What a great victory for you. Proving a point that nobody disagrees with because it is explicitly stated in the text. That’s a pretty good sign you can’t answer my points. Thank you for being so obvious about it.
quote: I tried to track that down once. Christian apologists gave no sources (hardly a surprise) and the closest I found was the idea that the Hittites were an obscure Canaanite tribe because the Bible said so. Which turns out to be mostly true, because Hittite is used - in English translations at least to refer to two different peoples, one of which IS an obscure Canaanite tribe.
quote: If my interpretations better fit the text - as they do - then that should be a perfectly good reason to put them forward - for anyone who respects the Bible. Of course those who subordinate the Bible to doctrine won’t welcome this. So much for Sola Scriptura.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Sure they are. That's how people could figure out what the prophet meant. You make the mistake of assuming that the prophecies were meant for you, and that only you can understand the symbolism. In fact, the prophecies were meant for the people they were given to. Your interpretations are just made up. The prophecies are NOT "based on easily y understood symbolism,"And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: And daring to disagree with you would be a mistake, would it ?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Denying what the Bible says is not respecting it. God wrote it and it's God you are objecting to/
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
God wrote the Bible, I didn't.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Your ideas about prophecy are not in the Bible. God wrote the Bible, I didn't.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Exactly my point. That is why the text must come before doctrine.
quote: And there you go denying what the Bible says.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Then why would it be a mistake for God to exclude Babylon from the Daniel 7 prophecy ? You didn’t give any reason, you just said it would be.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I changed the image of the winged lion in Message 165 to an image of a lion without wings.
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