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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 196 of 1748 (835961)
07-06-2018 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:04 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
It’s difficult to find a Babylonian winged lion, isn’t it. That’s rather odd if it was a special symbol of Babylon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:04 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:19 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 197 of 1748 (835962)
07-06-2018 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by PaulK
07-05-2018 4:21 PM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
Then why would it be a mistake for God to exclude Babylon from the Daniel 7 prophecy ? You didn’t give any reason, you just said it would be.
Babylon is the first empire in both visions of four empires.
You are making the mistake of trying to turn it into something else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2018 4:21 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:22 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 1748 (835963)
07-06-2018 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:14 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
I wasn't originally looking for a winged lion, just a lion, and found the winged one which seemed better. I'm back to my original intention. All your accusations about my motives are not only violations of any standard of civilized conversation, they are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:14 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:25 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 199 of 1748 (835964)
07-06-2018 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:16 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
Babylon is the first empire in both visions of four empires.
You are making the mistake of trying to turn it into something else.
In other words the mistake IS disagreeing with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:16 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:23 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 1748 (835965)
07-06-2018 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:22 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
The mistake is disagreeing with the entire evangelical world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:27 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 201 of 1748 (835966)
07-06-2018 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:19 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
I wasn't originally looking for a winged lion, just a lion, and found the winged one which seemed better. I'm back to my original intention.
So you were going to support your claim that a winged lion was a symbol of Babylon by showing an image of a lion without wings.
quote:
All your accusations about my motives are not only violations of any standard of civilized conversation, they are wrong.
What accusations ? There are none in the post you are replying to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:19 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:26 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 202 of 1748 (835967)
07-06-2018 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:25 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
The vision is of a lion, and I wanted an image from Babylon.
Your accusations are scattered among your posts.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:43 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 203 of 1748 (835968)
07-06-2018 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:23 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
The mistake is disagreeing with the entire evangelical world.
I would have thought that even if the entire evangelical world disagreed with God, it would be the entire evangelical world that was mistaken. Interesting that you claim otherwise,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:23 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:37 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 1748 (835969)
07-06-2018 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by PaulK
07-05-2018 2:19 PM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
Example of snarky false interpretation of my motives: "attempt to drag out this tangent." You make this sort of slimy accusation very frequently. Even the idea that I wanted a winged lion is false, I wasn't looking for a winged lion. You should stick to the subject and stop targeting me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2018 2:19 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:52 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 205 of 1748 (835970)
07-06-2018 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:27 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
You have no feeling for scripture or how to interpret prophecy. Most evangelicals do. Even where any of us may get points wrong we are on the right track, but all you are doing is multiplying errors because you have no sense of the foundational supernatural integrity of the Bible.
Your completely ignoring the Roman Empire and Jesus as Messiah the Prince is egregious "error" though it is far worse than mere error. You put a couple of insignificant "messiahs" in the place of Christ, and replace the giant Roman Empire with a branch off Greece and pretend all this fulfills a prophecy to "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." This is a trivialization of the seventy weeks prophecy, but even the whole tenor of scripture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:27 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 1:03 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 206 of 1748 (835971)
07-06-2018 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:26 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
The vision is of a lion, and I wanted an image from Babylon.
The vision is of a lion given an eagles wings and you certainly claimed that the wings were an important part of the identification:
Babylon symbolized itself by the image of a winged lion.
And let us note further that you never had any evidence that the original image was intended to symbolise Babylon at all.
quote:
Your accusations are scattered among your posts.
The only thing I find from the last few days is when I responded to your attempt to claim a victory by citing an utterly obvious point that nobody had disagreed with in the entire history of this thread. A point that therefore did nothing to advance discussion. In a post that left many more important points - all my major points - unaddressed.
I think that your motives there are pretty obvious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:26 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:47 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 1748 (835972)
07-06-2018 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:43 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
I don't think the wings are necessary to the identification. The four wings are in the case of the Leopard image of Greece, but not for Babylon. I have to suppose they have important meaning in the identification of Babylon but I think there are parts of all the prophecies that most of us aren't able to understand. Fortunately they are NOT necessary to identifying the empire.
Your claims about my motives are disgusting. You don't have a clue but even to comment on a person's motives in a discussion is disgusting./
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:43 AM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 208 of 1748 (835974)
07-06-2018 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:33 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
Example of snarky false interpretation of my motives: "attempt to drag out this tangent."
You certainly are dragging it out. And there is nothing about your motive for doing so in there.
quote:
Even the idea that I wanted a winged lion is false, I wasn't looking for a winged lion
But you certainly preferred an image of a winged lion, despite having perfectly good images of lions - and made a point of it. And that is what I responded to.
quote:
You should stick to the subject and stop targeting me.
Coming from someone who has made frequent false and unjustified accusations these trivial complaints hardly bear any weight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 1:00 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 1748 (835975)
07-06-2018 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by PaulK
07-06-2018 12:52 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
Being wrong has nothing to do with motives. Oh yes "attempt to drag out this tangent" claims I have a MOTVE to "drag out this tangent.' Oh yes WANTING a winged lion is different from thinking a winged lion is a good symbol. I COULD want it for that reason but you turned it into a scurrilous motive. You're very good at that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 12:52 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2018 1:09 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 210 of 1748 (835976)
07-06-2018 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
07-06-2018 12:37 AM


Re: Symbolism isn’t that easy
quote:
You have no feeling for scripture or how to interpret prophecy. Most evangelicals do. Even where any of us may get points wrong we are on the right track, but all you are doing is multiplying errors because you have no sense of the foundational supernatural integrity of the Bible.
Which only means that I don’t twist the Biblical text to make it fit your doctrine.
quote:
Your completely ignoring the Roman Empire and Jesus as Messiah the Prince is egregious "error" though it is far worse than mere error.
Calling it an error doesn’t make it so. Your failure to defeat my points argues that it is no error.
quote:
pire and Jesus as Messiah the Prince is egregious "error" though it is far worse than mere error. You put a couple of insignificant "messiahs" in the place of Christ, and replace the giant Roman Empire with a branch off Greece and pretend all this fulfills a prophecy to "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
The two messiahs are highly significant in the context of Daniel.
Disagreeing with your assessment of what is important in favour of what the author of Daniel seems to have considered to be important is no error. It is you who make the error in insisting that your ideas must be projected on to an author living in a different time, a different place a different culture.
As for the end of the prophecy that is supposed to occur at the end. I don’t relate it to anything that has actually happened, so your attack there is just a misrepresentation.
quote:
This is a trivialization of the seventy weeks prophecy, but even the whole tenor of scripture.
That is what you say. However if I am right - and the text fits my interpretation better than yours - your complaints are trivialising the prophecy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 12:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 07-06-2018 1:06 AM PaulK has replied

  
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