Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
112 online now:
kjsimons, vimesey (2 members, 110 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 893,979 Year: 5,091/6,534 Month: 511/794 Week: 2/135 Day: 2/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
Percy
Member
Posts: 20822
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 31 of 277 (836683)
07-21-2018 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
07-20-2018 6:06 PM


=Faith writes:

ringo writes:

Faith writes:

Me and Jeanine Pirro and all the millions who voted for Trump. We're all crazy, right? Crazy, stupid, whatever.

Give your head a shake. That's exactly what you're saying about the people who disagree with you. Why is it wrong when I say it and right when you say it?

Cuz I'm right?

Ringo's question was rhetorical and didn't require an answer. He was merely pointing out your double standard.

I suggest you stop trying to turn your thread into a discussion of the qualities of the people who do or don't support Trump. They are not the topic. Keep things focused on Trump and what's in the Pirro book.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 6:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:26 AM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 713 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 277 (836684)
07-21-2018 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Percy
07-21-2018 8:25 AM


Please leave this thread you lying Fascist Leftist propagandist.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 8:25 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by AdminPhat, posted 07-21-2018 9:45 AM Faith has replied
 Message 41 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 11:36 AM Faith has taken no action
 Message 47 by frako, posted 07-21-2018 12:38 PM Faith has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17170
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 33 of 277 (836686)
07-21-2018 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
07-21-2018 6:27 AM


Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
quote:

Charlottesville had nothing to do with conservatives, it was a bunch of white supremacists.

Obvious hypocrisy. They are right wingers. They are Trump supporters. Trump was prepared to call them “fine people”. If you are going to lump all “the Left” together they are certainly part of the Right. And they certainly have a lot more to do with the conspiracy-peddling you are supporting here than anti-fa has to do with the average Democrat.

quote:

But Antifa beats people up and provokes violence wherever conservatives gather. There are still violent acts against innocent Trump supporters minding their own business. The hate and violence is all on the Left.

That’s what you claim. But we know that there is plenty of violence from the Right. Even you know it.

quote:

Everything said about Obama was true and more than that.

Even the crazy claims about a plot to detonate a nuclear bomb on American soil? All the claims of treason ? All the assertions for which there is no real evidence? How could you possibly know ? Oh right, you are an evil hater so you believe it just because it’s against Obama.

quote:

There is definitely a leftist conspiracy against Trump and his supporters and really, against the freedoms America always stood for.

Which is why the Republicans are working so hard on gerrymandering and suppressing votes, right ? Can’t let anyone from the “Left” win an election can you ?

quote:

The lies are on your side.

So says Faith, the Queen of Lies and Hate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 6:27 AM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by AdminPhat, posted 07-21-2018 9:51 AM PaulK has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20822
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 34 of 277 (836690)
07-21-2018 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
07-20-2018 10:17 PM


Faith writes:

In the context of Pirro's book, who knows if you're all crazy or stupid or both. You haven't mentioned a single specific thing about it. I did read chapter one, and it's full of lies and absent any substance, so my suspicion is that anyone who finds chapter one convincing already believes that kind of silly stuff anyway and is a sucker for conspiracy theories.

I'm sure you're right, those who are convinced by her already think that way, it's just nice to see it confirmed by someone else.

But it wasn't confirmed by someone else. Pirro merely repeated without evidence what you already believe. That's not confirmation, that's just a fellow traveler saying things you like to hear.

Not that it's new, the Right has been taking note of this for some time now, but it's satisfying to have it all in one place like her book.

Have all what in one place like her book? You haven't mentioned a single thing from her book.

We all agree about all of this, we can see what's going on quite clearly though we do appreciate those in the public eye who say it out loud.

What is it that you see going on?

It would also be nice if some of those on the left might recognize that there really are a lot of us who see things this way...

The left is very aware of the inexplicable Republican base.

...and consider that maybe there's something to it.

Well, by all means, tell us about what there is to it.

But I guess not, we're all just crazy or stupid or both.

I again suggest you avoid personal characterizations.

There really are conspiracies, especially these days, particularly on the Left.

We're well aware of the right's love of conspiracy stories, and of their inability to prove them. They just eat up every crazy idea Trump utters.

Say, I've been good and stayed off your Trump-Bashing thread since you requested it of me; I wonder if you would be so kind as to stay off this one?

Now you're trying to renegotiate an already negotiated deal about the The Trump Presidency thread. I cautioned you in Message 104 and Message 196. You weren't the only one I cautioned. I cautioned RAZD in Message 107, saying, "I'd like to avoid this becoming a thread about digging for dirt on Trump." I finally removed your posting privileges, after which you agreed to stay off the thread in return for your own thread, see Message 213, but you never bothered to start one, and in any case me staying off your thread was never part of the agreement. Unlike you I'm able to keep discussion focused on evidence instead of crazy right-wing websites and conspiracy theories.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 10:17 PM Faith has taken no action

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 277 (836693)
07-21-2018 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
07-21-2018 8:26 AM


Focus On The Book
*Ahem*

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:26 AM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 52 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 2:21 PM AdminPhat has replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20822
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 36 of 277 (836694)
    07-21-2018 9:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
    07-21-2018 4:36 AM


    Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
    Faith writes:

    As I started out saying I have been avoiding politics, I don't have any stomach for what is being said and done against Trump,...

    You again are completely unspecific. There's no way to know what you're referring to. I can only respond generally that Trump has brought all his problems upon himself. If this is about recent events then I'll say that the media didn't make Michael Cohen pay off Daniels (directly) and McDougal (indirectly through AMI). The media didn't make Michael Cohen record a conversation with Trump about the McDougal payoff. The media didn't make Trump lie about the payoffs.

    If this is about the castigation of Trump concerning his denigrating of his own intelligence agencies, criticism is coming from both the right and the left. If it's about the castigation of Trump and his disastrous performance in Helsinki (and we still don't know what he agreed to in private with Putin), criticism is coming from both the right and the left.

    If this is about Trump's lies about his meetings with our NATO allies, the allies have all said his glowing accounts of browbeating them into upping their contributions immediately are untrue, that the final communique that all signed reiterated their prior commitment to reach 2% by 2024.

    If this is about his misguided tariff wars (Trump: "Trade wars are easy to win." Hah!), layoffs have already begun.

    ...it is clear to me that there is a conspiracy to bring him down with all those accusations...

    The accounts of Trump's damaging and untruthful words and actions are all true.

    ...and I can't do anything about it and I don't need the ulcer so I don't follow it.

    If you're not following the Trump train wreck in the news, then why are you trying to discuss it?

    But I know enough to appreciate what Pirro is saying.

    If you don't follow it, how could you possibly know if what Pirro is saying is true?

    It isn't just from the Democrats, but also fake Republicans,...

    It's the same thing over and over again with you. First it's fake Christians, now it's fake Republicans. Do you have any substance to your claims, or do you just like to call people names.

    ...but in general it's right to say that the oppression and violence are from the Left.

    But you don't follow it - how could you know? Maybe you should read this recent news article: Charlottesville Car Attack Suspect Indicted on Federal Hate Crime Charges. This is the guy who drove his car into a crowd of anti-Nazi demonstrators during the Nazi marches in Charlottesville last year, the marches where Trump said there were very good people on both sides.

    It's been coming from the Left since Trump was elected...

    What's been coming from the left is reporting of Trump's words and deeds.

    ...and it's the quiet nonviolent conservatives who have been suffering from it.

    Again, you don't follow it, how could you know?

    Neither the right or the left has a monopoly on good or bad people, but the left is not anti-gay, anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-health-care-for-poor-people, anti-separation-of-church-and-state and anti-telling-the-truth.

    This idea that it comes from the right is some kind of weird propaganda. Clueless.

    Again, you're not following it, how would you know. Your lack of specificity is telling. You just like to say bad things about people you disagree with. For you, facts never enter into it. If you get to call people names then you're happy.

    There has been no sign of it yet, and all the violence that has happened has come from the Left.

    You're not following it, but you know that all the violence is coming from the anti-gun left.

    The Left is Fascist these days, not the Right.

    Well, more baseless name calling. Feel better now?

    See the quote from Reagan in my signature. that's where the evil is today.

    Reagan was probably trying to say this:

    quote:
    “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” - Often quoted, frequently attributed to Sinclair Lewis, but attribution is actually unknown.

    I don't think America has ever been closer to fascism than it has been under Donald Trump. He seems to think being president makes him the boss of everything and everyone.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 4:36 AM Faith has taken no action

      
    AdminPhat
    Inactive Member


    Message 37 of 277 (836695)
    07-21-2018 9:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 33 by PaulK
    07-21-2018 8:33 AM


    Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
    PaulK writes:

    So says Faith, the Queen of Lies and Hate.

    Gotta warn you guys too...lets keep this discussion civil.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 33 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2018 8:33 AM PaulK has taken no action

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20822
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 38 of 277 (836696)
    07-21-2018 10:17 AM
    Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
    07-21-2018 5:43 AM


    Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
    Faith writes:

    All that is false leftist propaganda.

    It is apparent that you don't have a factual leg to stand on.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 25 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 5:43 AM Faith has taken no action

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20822
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 39 of 277 (836698)
    07-21-2018 10:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
    07-21-2018 6:27 AM


    Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
    Faith writes:

    Charlottesville had nothing to do with conservatives, it was a bunch of white supremacists.

    White supremacists aren't conservative? Who knew!

    But Antifa beats people up and provokes violence wherever conservatives gather. There are still violent acts against innocent Trump supporters minding their own business. The hate and violence is all on the Left.

    I don't think anyone on the left endorses Antifa. The left opposes both Antifa's politics and tactics.

    Everything said about Obama was true and more than that.

    Like what? That he wasn't an American citizen? That he's Muslim (not that it would matter, right?).

    There is definitely a leftist conspiracy against Trump and his supporters and really, against the freedoms America always stood for.

    As I said before, Trump is his own worst enemy. If he hadn't fired Comey there wouldn't be a Mueller investigation. If he hadn't ordered getting tough on immigrants we would have the family separation problem. If he hadn't started trade wars with the rest of the world he wouldn't be viewed as anti-free trade. If he hadn't said that he couldn't see how the 2016 election meddling could be Russia and complemented Putin's proposal that Russian investigators interrogate American citizens his Russian summit wouldn't have been a disaster. If he hadn't said the nuclear problem with North Korea was solved when it wasn't he wouldn't be seen as lying yet again. If he hadn't refused to condemn the Nazi's and white supremacists in Charlottesville he wouldn't be seen as a racist. If he didn't constantly tweet insults at congresspeople and the intelligence agencies he would be seen as against American democratic institutions.

    The lies are on your side.

    The suspicion must be that since you're unable to muster any facts that the opposite is true.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 27 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 6:27 AM Faith has taken no action

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20822
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 40 of 277 (836699)
    07-21-2018 11:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
    07-21-2018 8:15 AM


    Faith writes:

    The press is NOT the same as it has always been.

    No, this is untrue, the press hasn't changed.

    A few weeks ago I heard a journalism professor on the radio talk about how the press gave up its commitment to objectivity because they judged that it was more important to bring down Trump.

    Did he muster any evidence for this claim? You certainly haven't.

    I didn't need to hear that to know that the nonstop blitzkrieg attack on Trump on every news outlet was unprecedented and that something new and ugly was going on.

    The "something new and ugly" going on is Trump, and the news media is reporting it.

    Nothing like this has ever happened to any President before and everybody who is saying that is blind as a bat.

    No president as bad as Trump has ever happened before, so of course news coverage will reflect that.

    This is more than an attack on Trump, this is a direct assault on American freedoms.

    Criticizing presidents is not an attack on American freedoms.

    The press is lying, distorting, spinning everything in a negative light, emphasizing trivial gaffes and blowing things out of proportion, anything they can invent to make Trump look bad.

    Trump doesn't need any help making himself look bad - he does it all by himself. This is Fox News host Shep Smith on the summit with North Korea:

    quote:
    America demanded complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization. … There's no guarantee of that, not even words to that effect,...
    ...
    [Kim] wanted the photos, the seat at the table, he wanted the legitimacy that came with the event, the handshake with America's president. And he wanted those military exercises with the Americans and the South Koreans that happen every year to stop.

    Kim Jong Un got it all, for actually doing nothing.


    Fox News had the same opinion about the summit with Kim Jong Un as the New York Times, the Washington Post and CNN.

    Here are some quotes from Fox News people on the summit with Russia:

    • Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto in response to the comment that Trump should have said Russia will be punished for what they did in the 2016 election: "But he didn't, and that's what made it disgusting. That's what made his performance disgusting."

    • For News anchor Brit Hume on Twitter: "Trump, finally asked whom he believes on Russia interference, gives a vague and rambling non-answer, with renewed complaints about Hillary’s server. Says he trusts US intel but made clear he takes Putin’s denials seriously. Lame response, to say the least."

    • Fox News reporter John Roberts: "[Trump] threw the United States under the bus..."

    Moving on:

    This is truly unprecedented. It's politically motivated. Whatever Trump's personal faults, this is a well funded politically motivated attempt at a coup.

    If this is true then Fox News is in on your conspiracy, too.

    Percy writes:

    Ah, yes, you hate those immigrants, don't you. Can't have anyone who isn't white like you coming into the country. Perhaps your love of Trump comes from your shared racism.

    And you are lying about my views of Muslims, lying through your teeth, tarring me with racist motives because that's what leftists do, you can't tell the truth you have to slather on the Political Correctness which is nothing but character assassination. Fascist Leftist Liar.

    Well, if I'm wrong that you're against immigration of non-whites into the US then I apologize. I'm glad to hear you support immigration from Mexico and Syria and Iraq and Pakistan and Myanmar and so on.

    I did ask you to please leave this thread since I left yours at your request. Please do so.

    AdminPhat is moderating the thread. I think you should request that he issue suspensions to anyone not offering fact-based arguments.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 30 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:15 AM Faith has taken no action

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20822
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 41 of 277 (836701)
    07-21-2018 11:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
    07-21-2018 8:26 AM


    Faith writes:

    Please leave this thread you lying Fascist Leftist propagandist.

    Faith, you're turning your own thread into a garbage dump. The topic is Pirro's book about Trump, yet so far you haven't brought a single factual argument from that book into this thread. I again suggest you keep your focus on your topic, namely Trump and Pirro's book about the supposed conspiracy against him.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:26 AM Faith has taken no action

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-21-2018 11:51 AM Percy has replied

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19604
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.4


    Message 42 of 277 (836703)
    07-21-2018 11:46 AM
    Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
    07-20-2018 6:06 PM


    Faith writes:

    Cuz I'm right?


    You'd have to demonstrate that you're right. If you could do that, you wouldn't have to constantly resort to name-calling.

    And our geese will blot out the sun.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 6:06 PM Faith has taken no action

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15992
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 43 of 277 (836704)
    07-21-2018 11:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 41 by Percy
    07-21-2018 11:36 AM


    Admin Phat minus cape
    FYI I am moderating this thread.

    Some things won't change...so I am light on the suspensions thus far. By the way, (non admin mode) I found Full transcript: New York University journalism professor Jay Rosen what likely is the journalism professor that Faith is referring to. (/non admin mode)

    Faith does have sources that support her beliefs and suspicions...and in her defense, I will say that there are plenty of people who think as she does who can be linked as source material. Perhaps in regards to evidence, she does have a large segment of the US population that thinks as she does. As an administrator, I won't participate in this thread beyond this lone post. I hope that all of you can avoid name calling and derogatory speech. It makes our topics so much better to read.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 11:36 AM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by ringo, posted 07-21-2018 12:00 PM Phat has seen this message
     Message 45 by jar, posted 07-21-2018 12:12 PM Phat has taken no action
     Message 46 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 12:14 PM Phat has seen this message

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19604
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.4


    (2)
    Message 44 of 277 (836706)
    07-21-2018 12:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
    07-21-2018 11:51 AM


    Re: Admin Phat minus cape
    Phat writes:

    Perhaps in regards to evidence, she does have a large segment of the US population that thinks as she does.


    Opinion is not evidence.

    Trump's own words are evidence. Screaming "Fake news!" doesn't negate what we've all seen him say. We don't need a conspiracy.


    And our geese will blot out the sun.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-21-2018 11:51 AM Phat has seen this message

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33957
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.3


    Message 45 of 277 (836708)
    07-21-2018 12:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
    07-21-2018 11:51 AM


    Re: Admin Phat minus cape
    Beliefs are not evidence of anything other than the fact that someone claims to hold a particular belief.

    That is NOT evidence of any conspiracy.

    Faith has not provided any evidence to support any position beyond the fact that the book exists.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-21-2018 11:51 AM Phat has taken no action

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.1
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022