Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
90 online now:
kjsimons, PaulK, ringo, Stile (4 members, 86 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 894,025 Year: 5,137/6,534 Month: 557/794 Week: 48/135 Day: 0/25 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 322 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 76 of 277 (836748)
07-21-2018 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
07-21-2018 6:26 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
Of course you won't look at the link. Of course.

Are you willing to watch two videos of Trump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5s9kpPZBbg

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/709700456851746816


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 6:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Capt Stormfield, posted 07-21-2018 8:47 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 9:24 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 427
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 77 of 277 (836753)
07-21-2018 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dr Adequate
07-21-2018 7:06 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
I love your optimism. C'mon Faith, he's your man. Watching him can only strengthen your convictions, right? Or do "literal words" (Is there another kind?) frighten you? Or is that nagging inner voice reminding you that His Literal Words might put you in an awkward position vis a vis the truth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-21-2018 7:06 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20829
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 78 of 277 (836756)
07-21-2018 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
07-21-2018 5:29 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
Responding only to the parts that at least somewhat touch on the topic...

Faith writes:

I oppose illegal immigration...

We all oppose illegal immigration, but those of us with a heart recognize that fleeing drug lords or war zones or abuse or other dangers doesn't always provide the opportunity to follow the niceties of US immigration law. Presenting oneself at a designated immigration station isn't always an option. We are not the country of family separations and callous deportations but of compassion and opportunity. We must return to striving toward these ideals.

...and Muslim immigration for good reasons that have nothing whatever to do with racism...

Your assertions that Islam is a murderous religion do not hold up. Plus all immigration applicants go through a screening process that stretches over years and is more than sufficient to detect potential terrorist threats. The process is already too drawn out and exhaustive.

...but the Left only knows what Cultural Marxism decrees: we are racists and homophobes and worse, there is no such thing as objective reasons for these things.

It has nothing to do with the left or cultural Marxism. Racial discrimination or LGBT discrimination or "just because they're different" discrimination isn't transformed into non-discrimination just because you say some book says it's okay. It's still racist or` homophobic.

Also, this demand for evidence isn't as reasonable as you think it is,...

If you have no evidence then you no rationale for what you believe - it's just what you feel like believing.

...it's just a way of refusing to entertain the reasonable point of view of the opposition,...

How can a point of view with no evidence to have reasoned from be reasonable?

...basically a big fat "shut up" to conservatives.

No one's telling you to "shut up," but if you have no evidence to underpin what you believe, then what is there for you to say? You can only repeat what you believe over and over again - you have no means of persuasion, unless browbeating counts.

Sorry there really is a conspiracy by the leftist media to bring down Trump...

You keep saying this but never supporting it. Trump is his own worst enemy. If he hadn't fired Comey there wouldn't be a Mueller investigation. If he didn't sleep with porn stars and playmates, then pay them off to keep voters from finding out, then lie about it, then lie about paying them off, then he wouldn't have that big mess. If he hadn't ordered getting tough on immigrants we wouldn't have the family separation problem. If he hadn't started trade wars with the rest of the world he wouldn't be viewed as anti-free trade. If he hadn't lied about the NATO allies contributions he wouldn't have European heads of state saying he hadn't told the truth. If he hadn't said that he couldn't see how the 2016 election meddling could be Russia and complemented Putin's proposal that Russian investigators interrogate American citizens his Russian summit wouldn't have been a disaster. If he hadn't said the nuclear problem with North Korea was solved when it wasn't he wouldn't be seen as lying yet again. If he hadn't refused to condemn the Nazi's and white supremacists in Charlottesville he wouldn't be seen as a racist. If he didn't constantly tweet insults at congresspeople and the intelligence agencies he wouldn't be seen as against American democratic institutions.

There is no conspiracy to bring down Trump. He's doing it to himself.

...but all we get is the inane declarations of what the press is supposed to be without a hint that anybody sees the total blitzkrieg that's going on.

You've used the word blitzkrieg before. Trump is committing a blitzkrieg on truth and integrity and decorum, and the media is reporting it, even Fox News.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 5:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 6:33 AM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 79 of 277 (836757)
07-21-2018 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dr Adequate
07-21-2018 7:06 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
Not interested. Maybe later. Maybe not.

But in my experience what you all call lies and denial is the exaggerated accusations the media lays on Trump that so distort the context of whatever he said of course he has to deny it, it doesn't represent what he meant.

Again, if you want a response to any of that you are going to have to persaonlly make the case.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-21-2018 7:06 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 80 of 277 (836759)
07-21-2018 9:39 PM


Sorry, no evidence. Plain decency would respect the claim.
All I really wanted on this thread was a recognition of the utterly totally comopletely opposite point of view on the right to the one that is shared by everybody here. I did not want to debate these things because I'm not keeping up with the issues, I would just like it acknowledged that millions of us KNOW there is a leftist and media conspiracy against Trump. I don't expect you to agree with it, but I would expect the common decency of treating the opposition with enough respect to try to see it from our point of view.

There has been research done that shows an outrageously high negative news coverage of Trump as compared to coverage of any other President in recent history, twice as negative at least. No I'm not goingto provide evidence, I expect to be treated with normal human respect despite knowing I won't be. All I have to do is go to the Yahoo news page or accidentally happen to hear something on the network news to know there is something foul going on. But of course it turns out you just treat it as normal news and blame it on Trump, no recognition that you are being manipulated. I do wonder where your heads can be. But all I'm going to say is OPEN YOUR EYES IT'S EVERYWHERE. Unless I feel like digging up some examples some time. No, you all don't really care about evidence, you just rationalize it away anyway, no point.

abe; What I said to Dr. A above about what Trump's "lies" and "denials" I've experienced here personally all the time, so I have a feeling for the method. I'm accused of something, blamed for something, usually without evidence speaking of evidence, and if I do find out what I'm supposedly guilty of it's just about always something taken out of context, misinterpreted in some ridiculous way, or blown up out of all proportion out of some kind of zeal to dehumanize me.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2018 1:43 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 81 of 277 (836760)
07-22-2018 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
07-21-2018 9:39 PM


Re: Sorry, no evidence. Plain decency would respect the claim.
quote:

All I really wanted on this thread was a recognition of the utterly totally comopletely opposite point of view on the right to the one that is shared by everybody here

I don’t think anyone disagreed with the fact that there are people on the right making such claims.

quote:

did not want to debate these things because I'm not keeping up with the issues, I would just like it acknowledged that millions of us KNOW there is a leftist and media conspiracy against Trump.

Obviously you DON’T know. And you don’t care.

quote:

I don't expect you to agree with it, but I would expect the common decency of treating the opposition with enough respect to try to see it from our point of view.

It’s hard to understand people so dominated by hate and tribalism and pride. And I do not think that deserves respect.

quote:

There has been research done that shows an outrageously high negative news coverage of Trump as compared to coverage of any other President in recent history, twice as negative at least.

A president who does a bad job will be criticised, and Trump has done a worse job than any recent president. You chose to assume otherwise but why does that deserve respect ? If you cared about the issues enough to answer the criticisms of Trump then you might have a defensible view - but uninformed opinions are worthless. And that is all you offer.

quote:

But of course it turns out you just treat it as normal news and blame it on Trump, no recognition that you are being manipulated. I do wonder where your heads can be. But all I'm going to say is OPEN YOUR EYES IT'S EVERYWHERE.

And yet you have no idea of whether it is “manipulation” or accurate reporting. You just throw accusations with your eyes tightly closed. You aren’t following the issues, you have no idea of the truth of the matter - you just make baseless accusations. You’ve admitted as much.

Your view is that criticism of Trump should be silenced, whether it is true or not - by making accusations against the critics with no regard to whether the accusations are true or not.

That does not deserve respect. It deserves harsh condemnation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 9:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 5:59 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 82 of 277 (836762)
07-22-2018 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by PaulK
07-22-2018 1:43 AM


Re: Sorry, no evidence. Plain decency would respect the claim.
Yeah, well, so much for common decency. Obviously the Left has no room for it in their sneering self-righteous arrogance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2018 1:43 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2018 8:25 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 83 of 277 (836770)
07-22-2018 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Percy
07-21-2018 9:21 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
You have a heart? That's got to be a joke.

Islam is a murdering ideology. Learn something.

Political Correctness is character assassination rather than respectful reasoned disagreement. It is Cultural Marxism and it is the lowest most uncivilized most evil debate tactic yet devised by the devil himself to destroy reason.

The demand for evidence is just a way of calling your opponent a liar. Civility means basic respect for others' views and maybe then we can discuss the evidence.

Half the stuff thrown at Trump is made up. More than half. NOTHING, but NOTHING has been found to link him with any kind of Russian collusion but the witch hunt goes on even after sinking to the foulest possible levels. How come the press didn't bother the Kennedys with all their womanizing? And Bill Clinton got off pretty easy too, one of the biggest abusers of women ever. The willingness of the press to trash this President on the slightest excuse is unprecedented. Wake up.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Percy, posted 07-21-2018 9:21 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by jar, posted 07-22-2018 8:01 AM Faith has taken no action
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 07-22-2018 8:24 PM Faith has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 84 of 277 (836771)
07-22-2018 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
07-19-2018 8:55 PM


It's amazing, it's unprecedented, and yet the left insists it's not so, that it's Trump causing all the problems, they are merely being rightly critical. Well THAT's not so but I gave up a long time ago saying anything about it here or to anyone except people who share my views. There are a lot of us but the other side drowns us out because they have the favor of the media.

The role of the media has changed from being information-driven to being entertainment-driven... and this has exacerbated tensions to the point where it is almost satirical. But you don't seem to see your own role in all of this. This syrupy-sweet Trump-can-do-no-wrong sympathizing is just as horribly biased as the people you condemn, if only in reverse.

What a relief it is to read someone who actually likes Trump, can spell out his good qualities and his achievements, his generosity, his patriotism, his concern for forgotten classes of citizens, who sees that there really is an unprecedented conspiracy to bring him down by the Left, who hate my half of the country, and canspeak for those who voted for his truly America-loving policies.

Ask anyone here if they consider me a "leftist." None, besides yourself would... then again, standing next to you defaults me to a Maoist rebel... but I digress. My central point is that even amongst his party, Trump is out of step. Even voices on the Right are acknowledging that he's an idiot, that he's essentially colluding with Russians, that he's sending this country into dangerous and unpredictable directions based upon flippant whims, and that he, an uber-rich financier, managed to trick desperately poor folk into believing that he gives a crap about them... So are those Republicans crazy or is Trump a little nuts and your fawning over him a little too cultish?

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 07-19-2018 8:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 7:01 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 85 of 277 (836772)
07-22-2018 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Hyroglyphx
07-22-2018 6:55 AM


I'm not defending Trump, I refuse to have an opinion about him because of the way he's being treated. I don't care what his flaws are, the attack on him is so ridiculously out of proportion I don't want to feed it even a crumb.

OK I should speak only of Leftist ideas in your case, it is possible not to be a Leftist and yet in this current political atmosphere to get snared into thinking like a Leftist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-22-2018 6:55 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 07-22-2018 7:12 AM Faith has taken no action
 Message 98 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-22-2018 4:11 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20829
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 86 of 277 (836773)
07-22-2018 7:11 AM


Biblical Revision: Gay Sex Used to be Okay
According to The Secret History of Leviticus in today's New York Times, homosexual sex used to accepted. Clues left behind in the text reveal that Leviticus underwent editorial revision over time that eventually included a ban on homosexual behavior that was not originally there. Some excerpts:

quote:
Like many ancient texts, Leviticus was created gradually over a long period and includes the words of more than one writer. Many scholars believe that the section in which Leviticus 18 appears was added by a comparatively late editor, perhaps one who worked more than a century after the oldest material in the book was composed. An earlier edition of Leviticus, then, may have been silent on the matter of sex between men.

But I think a stronger claim is warranted. As I argue in an article published in the latest issue of the journal Hebrew Bible and Ancient Israel, there is good evidence that an earlier version of the laws in Leviticus 18 permitted sex between men. In addition to having the prohibition against same-sex relations added to it, the earlier text, I believe, was revised in an attempt to obscure any implication that same-sex relations had once been permissible.
...
What we have here is strong evidence of editorial intervention.
...
It seems that with the later introduction in Leviticus of a law banning all male homosexual intercourse, it became expedient to bring the earlier material up-to-date by doing away with two now-superfluous injunctions against homosexual incest — injunctions that made sense when sex between men was otherwise allowed.


I left a lot out, those interested should read the piece, and the linked to research article, for full details, but in essence the author argues that the Bible was originally fine with gay sex.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-22-2018 8:20 AM Percy has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 87 of 277 (836774)
07-22-2018 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Faith
07-22-2018 7:01 AM


Faith writes:

I'm not defending Trump, I refuse to have an opinion about him because of the way he's being treated. I don't care what his flaws are, the attack on him is so ridiculously out of proportion I don't want to feed it even a crumb.

Yet you present no evidence to support your position while there is overwhelming evidence that Trump really is simply a boor.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 7:01 AM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 88 of 277 (836776)
07-22-2018 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Faith
07-22-2018 6:33 AM


Re: Focus On The Book
Faith writes:

The demand for evidence is just a way of calling your opponent a liar.

No Faith, that once again is simply another of your incorrect assertions.

Focusing on the book by demanding evidence for the assertions made in the book is what separates the civilized from the barbarian, the wise from the ignorant, the sane from the delusional, the truth from the fiction, reality from fantasy and the facts from the cultist dogma.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 6:33 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3880
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 89 of 277 (836777)
07-22-2018 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Percy
07-22-2018 7:11 AM


Gender Bending in the Bible
http://northernspiritradio.org/episode/gender-bending-bible

quote:
Peterson Toscano is an amazing and innovative thinker whose acting talent reaps revolutionary insights with his video, Transfigurations: Transgressing Gender in the Bible. With humor, drama, and insight, Peterson unearths a wide range of non-gender compliant people & passages hidden in plain sight in the Bible, for LGBTQI and Straight to see.

A one hour show from Northern Spirit Radio, a Quaker organization.

We just happen to be broadcasting/webcasting it on our little local Two Harbors, MN station at 9:00am (central US time, about a hour 40 minutes from now) - http://ktwh.org/player/

Audio is also available via the link at the message top.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add blurb from linked site.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Show length correction - It is 1 hour, not 1/2 hour.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Percy, posted 07-22-2018 7:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Percy, posted 07-22-2018 9:15 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 90 of 277 (836778)
07-22-2018 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
07-22-2018 5:59 AM


Re: Sorry, no evidence. Plain decency would respect the claim.
Yes, you are completely lacking in common decency. Although we knew that from the OP.

Common decency does not require me to take your opinion at all seriously when it is obviously false and your sole excuse for not knowing that is that you can’t be bothered to know.

Common decency on the other hand would seem to forbid the endorsement of insane accusations on purely political partisan grounds. Yet you are quite willing to do THAT.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 5:59 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022