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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1492 From: Ky U.S. Joined:
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There's nothing Christian about Trump. Christians support him because he's a fellow traveler with respect to conservative judgeships and abortion and other Christian causes, not because he in any way resembles a Christian. YOU GOT IT! There you are Hyroglyphx, wherever you are! They don't support today's Democrats because of Democrats passion for liberal judgeships, the pro abortion causes, and the many other socialist, anti-constitution leanings of today's Democrats. My work here is almost done!
We're judging Trump's presidency on two things: What he says and what he does. What he says consists of tweets, occasional responses to reporter questions, occasional interviews, occasional public comments, and what he says at his rallies. It doesn't include press conferences, since there was only the one press conference held shortly after his inauguration a year ago January. What Trump does is a mixed bag. He's been pretty strong on Russia with sanctions, allowing the sending of arms to the Ukraine, and allowing engagement with Russian forces in Syria. He's been incredibly destructive or misguided on other things, such as attacking our democratic institutions, the cruelty of family separations, and the raising of tariffs that are now causing layoffs in the US. More NY Times talking points. Something to think about, before I go; WW1 was sparked by an assassination. Today's unhinged news media could easily be inspiring many people to desire to become famous by assassinating Trump. If Trump were assassinated, there WOULD be dancing in the streets, in the ghetto areas of the bigger cities in the U.S. How do you think Trump supporters would respond? Do you think it could resemble something this country hasn't seen in 155 years? I wouldn't want to see it, and I think the Trump haters should tone it down. It's easy to see your anger isn't only at Trump, it's at all the voters who elected him. Obama went to Cuba and made nice with the communists down there are few years ago, the news media didn't have a fit. FDR met with Stalin during his presidency. Jimmy Carter gave away the Panama canal. This has got to be the first time in history when the news media goes nuts when a U.S. president has friendly, largely meaningless meetings with foreign leaders. All this outrage by the media at every small Trump action is a transparent witch hunt, and many Democrat voters, who aren't Trump haters, can see through it. The news media fools some, but not near all of them. We'll see how it goes this November. I really think if Cruz, or Huckabee, or any of the others would have been elected, the hate would be just as bad. It's a hate of U.S. tradition, not just Trump.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I get my information from lots of sources. My views are actually pretty mainstream, the reason there is so much shock about them here is probably because most here, like Percy, live in the tiny NY Times, Washington Post bubble. Your views are mainstream among your own clan. I don't know what your sources are because you don't give them, but I do know that you do tend to be very inventive when it comes to starting what the facts are. I have also noted you doubting stuff that anybody can check using any number of sources. If you want to describe your sources, perhaps that will add to your credibility. Feel free. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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...but the idea that Democrats are looking for votes from illegals or from former illegals is a part of conspiracy theory pushed frequently by Republicans.... I sure wish that Republicans would spend as much effort to protect our elections from foreign interference as they have looking for nonexistent voting fraud.What do you despise? By this are you truly known. -- Frank Herbert
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3940 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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There's nothing Christian about Trump. Christians support him because he's a fellow traveler with respect to conservative judgeships and abortion and other Christian causes, not because he in any way resembles a Christian. YOU GOT IT! There you are Hyroglyphx, wherever you are! They don't support today's Democrats because of Democrats passion for liberal judgeships, the pro abortion causes, and the many other socialist, anti-constitution leanings of today's Democrats. My work here is almost done! So in summary, Trump's a narcissistic boob, but he's the right wing Christian's narcissistic boob. MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
But the main reason his support increases among Christians today? Because of the way he reacts to the SATANIC HATRED that comes at him from all directions. Most anyone else would have resigned the presidency by now. He deals with it in a very measured, Christian way. He could have gloated a lot more than he did Is that a joke? Seriously, is this a practical joke? This guy's entire Modus Operandi is to gloat, bloviate, jerk himself off, and to engage in Twitter wars like a 15-year old spoiled brat. You couldn't find a more glaring example of a self-important megalomaniac if you tried. And on top of his penchants to throw temper tantrums like the silver-spooned daddy's boy that he is, he thinks of his position as if the CEO of the entire world. This isn't an extension of his reality t.v. shows, though he treats it as such and this isn’t a game... China doesn't think it's a game. North Korea doesn't think it's a game... and if anyone is playing games, it's Russia playing Trump for the fool... at our expense. The collusion that’s real too Putin has something big on him, both in financial ties and (just hazarding a guess) something incredibly scandalous that he lords over Trump to shut him up and force him to play nice. And you actually called him "measured?" Compared to what? Adolph Hitler?
Sure, his earlier public life didn't indicate a passion for Christianity, with his casino developments etc. but it was a long time ago. He is older and wiser now, and Christians believe he has a genuine love for the U.S. Christians believe he represents their knowledge that the bigger and more prominent a nation is Sure, he blows lines of coke off the asses of high-end hookers, worships Mammon as if to Molech, and doesn't take that whole Bible-thingy too seriously... but, hey, at least he's not gay or a Democrat! Amirite?!?! I get the whole lesser-of-evils thing... Hillary is as close to demonic as anything north of hell... I get that... we are simpatico there but you and all the true believers really sold your soul for a not-so-subtle wolf in sheep's clothing. Just say that you're willing to compromise your own beliefs if it serves a greater political purpose... at least then you'd be honest with yourself, with us, and with Jesus. As to your coveting his unending energy at his age, yeah, it’s called Mexican Supplements or did you think his virility was other-worldly? That guy has been propped up by Speed for the better part of 3 decades. In laymen’s terms, he is jacked up on a cocktail of Adderall and TRT 75% of his day. But, for all my criticisms of him, I will agree with one thing CNN really is fake news. Utter trash no better than the National Enquirer. But even then, he makes himself such an easy target for the smear campaign. At the end of the day, I don’t see how you reconcile being a Christian and a Trump supporter. The two truly are mutually exclusive. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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here's a compilation of Trump's statements over time. What a nightmare it must be for Sarah Huckabee... Can you imagine trying to do damage control for Trump? Exhausting!"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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Americans are idiots or they wouldn't have elected Trump. Technically speaking, Russians voted for Trump and are considered geniuses for it "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
marc9000 writes: Percy writes: Do Christians care that Trump bluntly tells lies? The lie accusations fly with every president, it's all very subjective. This is like saying, "It rains everywhere around the world," when the reality is that it rains with different amounts and severity in different parts of the globe. In the same way, different presidents lie in different amounts and severity. Here is a graph comparing Trump's lies versus Obamas. This compares Trump lies through the first 10 months of his presidency to Obama's lies over 8 years:
Here's a more comprehensive graph of just Trump lies up through last May from In 497 days, President Trump has made 3,251 false or misleading claims:
Moving on:
In the case of presidents, and the news media for that matter, Christians can consider ~omissions of truth~ as almost as serious as a lie. The above graph of Trump lies includes omissions of truth. Just to be clear about the nature of the lies Trump is telling, here are some lies from a recent Montana campaign rally taken from Anatomy of a Trump rally: 76 percent of claims are false, misleading or lacking evidence. I'll just include a few of the briefer false statements so that this post doesn't become too long, click the link if you want see everything from "Accurate" to "Misleading" to "Mostly false" to "False":
Moving on:
Trump wasn't a D.C. insider, and some of the things he said during the campaign, and is saying now, are TRUTHS that need to be said, since D.C. insiders tend not to say them. No one is saying Trump never says anything that is true, but if Trump has stated "TRUTHS that need to be said" then please tell us what they are.
Of course word definitions can change. Are you saying that you think fake news should now be defined as any news unfavorable to Donald Trump or that he disagrees with? It WILL be defined however the general public chooses to recognize the term. Don't you think that most anyone hearing a news report labeled "fake news" will believe they're being told the account is false?
If they decide that it's a personal opinion from someone who claims to be an objective journalist, that's the way it will be defined, and it will be a very broad definition. We're talking about news. All news outlets have opinion pages or segments, including Fox News and Breitbart - that's not what we're discussing.
(please don't ban me, I'm going I'm going.) Ban you? Why? I don't think anyone is moderating this thread anyway. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Iran's General Gholam Hossein Gheibparvar of their Revolutionary Guard Sunday at a diplomatic gathering was quoted by Reuters as saying:
quote: Trump got together with his international team including national security advisor John Bolton, CIA director Gina Haspel, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to define the text of a measured and diplomatic public response and devise further strategy. Naw, just kidding. Trump just tweeted off the top of his head while lying in bed last night:
quote: Just what we like to see from the leader of the free world, angry, unbalanced and over the top threats in all caps.
Source --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
NoNukes writes: Having illegal's vote is not something Democrats espouse,... Joe Whitson didn't say that Democrats want illegals given the right to vote. He said they want non-citizens given the right to vote. I guess that includes illegals.
I would not call it a lie; If it's not a lie then it is at least fallacious or wrong or erroneous or whatever appropriate term you like. Joe Whitson said something that is not true. That Democrats want open borders to feed the hoards of non-citizens to vote for Democrats is a Republican meme in the age of Trump. Being frequent and clear about how untrue this is is important, and given the number of times correct information has been provided and made available, in my view repeating this untruth is a lie.
but it is ridiculous, paranoid, and inane. Fear of a brown planet. Yes, I'd agree with that, it does also tell us a great deal about Mr. Whitson's state of mind. But it is also untrue that Democrats want non-citizens given voting rights. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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marc9000 writes: There's nothing Christian about Trump. Christians support him because he's a fellow traveler with respect to conservative judgeships and abortion and other Christian causes, not because he in any way resembles a Christian.
YOU GOT IT! There you are Hyroglyphx, wherever you are! They don't support today's Democrats because of Democrats passion for liberal judgeships, the pro abortion causes, and the many other socialist, anti-constitution leanings of today's Democrats. My work here is almost done! You sound proud that Christians are behaving politically in order to enforce their own religiously based beliefs of morality upon those outside their religion who believe differently. Separation of church and state gives the religious the right to worship as they please. It doesn't give them the right to force their religious beliefs onto others.
More NY Times talking points. I wouldn't say they're exclusive to the New York Times, they're just things that are true about Trump, so I can see why you'd like to dismiss them. We can only judge Trump's presidency based upon what he says and what he does. What he says consists of tweets, occasional responses to reporter questions, occasional interviews, occasional public comments, and what he says at his rallies. His rate of lying is considerable. He continually contradicts himself, saying one thing one day and something else the next. In Helsinki standing next to Putin he gave greater credibility to Putin than to American intelligence agencies regrading 2016 election meddling. Once he returned to Washington he walked it back by reading from a script that endorsed his confidence in American intelligence agencies. The very next day he went back to dismissing Russian election meddling. He lies incessantly. What he does is a mixed bag but mostly negative. He finally implemented the Russian sanctions voted by Congress last year, but he exited the Iran deal escalating tensions with both Iran and our allies who were also part of the deal.He withdrew the US from the Pacific trade pact. He continually attacks our democratic institutions, especially the FBI and the courts, he attacks our allies, he cozies up to brutal dictators, he even attacks members of his own cabinet (e.g., former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson), he's cruel and inhumane (family separations, calls for violence against protestors and criminals), and he's got us into a trade war with much of the rest of the world that is costing American jobs. So these aren't just talking points. They characterize the Trump administration as confused, contradictory, antagonistic and untruthful. And I gave you much more evidence than you responded to, providing his tweets of attacking the free press, lying about his economic numbers, lying about reactions of intelligence agencies to Helsinki, name calling and attacking individuals like Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. All the evidence suggests that Trump is striking out at everyone and everything else and that the media is merely reporting it. Trump is the source of hate, not the target of it. You've replied to not a single specific Trump comment or action I cited in my previous message while merely repeating your empty claims about the media. If Trump is doing and saying things reported accurately by the media that he thinks reflect poorly upon him then he need only stop doing and saying such things.
I think the Trump haters should tone it down. If Trump tones it down and stops saying and doing inflammatory things then the media will no longer be reporting on these inflammatory things.
It's easy to see your anger isn't only at Trump, it's at all the voters who elected him. You keep saying things like this, and you have it all wrong. Those who respect our democratic institutions and the office of the president are repulsed at Trump's many deplorable actions, but we don't hate him. His actions define who he is, there's often no need to make much additional comment. Those who unreservedly and uncritically support Trump seem inexplicable, but we don't hate them, either.
Obama went to Cuba and made nice with the communists down there are few years ago, the news media didn't have a fit. FDR met with Stalin during his presidency. No one's against diplomacy (by the way, you do know, I hope, that Russia was an ally against Hitler when Roosevelt met with Stalin, not once but twice, first in Tehran then later in Yalta, Churchill also present of course). We're against knuckling under to brutal dictators.
Jimmy Carter gave away the Panama canal. I was never a fan of Jimmy Carter, but I am a fan of truth and accuracy. We created Panama so they could give us the canal zone. It was never ours. From Wikipedia:
quote: Moving on:
This has got to be the first time in history when the news media goes nuts when a U.S. president has friendly, largely meaningless meetings with foreign leaders. You are alone in characterizing the meetings with Kim Jung Un and with Putin as meaningless. Not even Fox News or Breitbart agree with you. Trump was far too "friendly" in both meetings in that he was deeply conciliatory and made free concessions, such as halting joint military exercises with South Korea, agreeing there was no Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and expressing a willingness to allow Russian interrogators to question Americans such as the former Russian ambassador.
All this outrage by the media at every small Trump action... Assuming we're talking about news articles, there's no outrage. The news media is just reporting on what Trump does, and what he does is appalling and dismaying.
I really think if Cruz, or Huckabee, or any of the others would have been elected, the hate would be just as bad. It's a hate of U.S. tradition, not just Trump. Again, I don't think the feelings toward Trump are hate. About Cruz and Huckabee, I don't know why you even mention Huckabee, he dropped out very early. Anyway, neither is anything like Trump. I very much doubt that either would engage in the mass production of erroneous, misleading and self-serving tweets, or would go against decades of Republican policy to oppose free trade, oppose NATO, or cozy up to North Korea and Russia. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Hyroglyphx writes: What a nightmare it must be for Sarah Huckabee... Can you imagine trying to do damage control for Trump? Exhausting! Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I've listened to enough Sanders press conferences to have a feel for what she's doing. She's moving as rapidly through the questions as she can. Most of her answers are very short, a couple sentences delivered in 10 or 15 seconds. She usually allows a follow-up, but if she disapproves of a question she will disallow the follow-up and move on. When challenged on an answer she usually just repeats what she just said in slightly different words. She often avoids answering questions by referring the reporter to a specific agency. She seems to have developed a good understanding of what the president wants her to say about many things even when they don't align with what he is saying. For example, after Trump accepted Putin's word about 2016 election meddling over the findings of American intelligence agencies, Sanders said that Trump respects the intelligence agencies and their findings about the 2016 elections. Trump doesn't seem to mind this, even as Sanders consistently repeats the same answers from one day to the next while Trump keeps changing his, for example now resuming his challenges of his intelligence agency findings and calling the Mueller investigation into Russian meddling a witch hunt. Sanders is a good translator of Trump's immoderate, undecorous, undetailed and contradictory comments into a less incoherent message. She seems a nice person, and why she's working in the service of a president so self-serving and truth-challenged is baffling. Maybe she's gotten over-focused on the challenges of the job and has lost sight of what's right and wrong. --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Separation of church and state gives the religious the right to worship as they please. It doesn't give them the right to force their religious beliefs onto others. Actually it kinda does, because our system allows them to elect their favored politicians who get to pick those who interpret the constitution and to determine exactly what "separation of church and state" really means. Separation of church and state are not the actual words in the constitution, although they do express the intended meaning of the author of the first amendment.
mark9k writes: This has got to be the first time in history when the news media goes nuts when a U.S. president has friendly, largely meaningless meetings with foreign leaders. Is this really how wingers think? If so then there is no common ground with them on Trump. Not even love of country, which should be one of our shared values, can help here. ABE:
She seems a nice person I have reached the opposite conclusion. She is not a nice person. A nice person would have quit by now. There is only so much of her off-putting tactics that can be excused by "it's her job" before you have to conclude that she will do essentially evil crap for pay. Sorry, but no. Not nice. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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jar Member (Idle past 384 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
NN writes: mark9k writes: This has got to be the first time in history when the news media goes nuts when a U.S. president has friendly, largely meaningless meetings with foreign leaders. Is this really how wingers think? If so then there is no common ground with them on Trump. Not even love of country, which should be one of our shared values, can help here. How soon people forget Ping Pong Diplomacy and the frenzy of a US President going to China and encouraging direct relationships between the US and China.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
How soon people forget Ping Pong Diplomacy and the frenzy of a US President going to China and encouraging direct relationships between the US and China I haven't forgotten those. But are the serious complaints about the fact that Trump met with Russia or North Korea? Or are the complaints about the content of those meetings and Trump's behavior before and after the meetings. Yes. By all means. Meet with Russia. Play some foosball. But don't then announce that you are considering sending US diplomats to Russia for interrogation. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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