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Author Topic:   A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 277 (837111)
07-26-2018 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by ringo
07-26-2018 8:16 PM


Re: the problem
He believed what he said.

Please don't overgeneralize what I say, there are always exceptions. You are doing to me what is done to Trump by coming up with that example that ISN'T about worldview.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by ringo, posted 07-26-2018 8:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 07-26-2018 8:35 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19612
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 182 of 277 (837113)
07-26-2018 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
07-26-2018 8:17 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

He believed what he said.


You don't know that. You're the one who is misinterpreting and distorting.

What he said could mean he can't count. It could be a bold-faced lie. It could be narcissistic wishful thinking. It could be just a childish blurt.

There could be some overlap.

There's almost no possible interpretation that makes him look like somebody you'd want in charge of the noodles.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:45 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 277 (837114)
07-26-2018 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
07-26-2018 8:35 PM


Re: the problem
He believed what he said. Trump makes mistakes, he misstates things, he's not careful about his words as he should be, he's not cautious enough in the face of what he should know by now about his opposition, but most of us who voted for him think he's basically honest, we know he is not a racist and that those accusations are spun from illconsidered comments that have nothing to do with race, and we think he really cares about the things he supported in his campaign speeches, which we also care about. It's too bad he's got moral problems with women but if you compare him to Clinton or Kennedy I'm not sure he's worse than either of them and the main difference is that the press left them alone for the most part, but they're ravening wolves against Trump.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 07-26-2018 8:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Taq, posted 07-27-2018 12:20 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 185 by ringo, posted 07-27-2018 12:21 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 186 by NoNukes, posted 07-27-2018 4:48 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 187 by Percy, posted 07-27-2018 6:23 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8523
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 184 of 277 (837128)
07-27-2018 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
07-26-2018 8:45 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

. . . but most of us who voted for him think he's basically honest, . . .

WHY?????

It's too bad he's got moral problems with women but if you compare him to Clinton or Kennedy I'm not sure he's worse than either of them and the main difference is that the press left them alone for the most part, but they're ravening wolves against Trump.

The Clinton scandals were on the news all of the time, probably more than Trump's many scandals. In fact, Clinton was impeached for supposedly lying about his affair with Lewinsky. I think you need to revisit history.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:45 PM Faith has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19612
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 185 of 277 (837129)
07-27-2018 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
07-26-2018 8:45 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

He believed what he said.


You don't know that.

Faith writes:

Trump makes mistakes, he misstates things, he's not careful about his words as he should be, he's not cautious enough in the face of what he should know by now about his opposition, but most of us who voted for him think he's basically honest...


So, incompetent but honest. I suppose you wouldn't object to an incompetent heart surgeon, as long as he was honest.

Faith writes:

... we know he is not a racist...


Frankly, I couldn't care less if he's a racist. As I've said before, I'm a racist. I'm not proud of it but I'm honest about it and I'm trying to get better.

I'd have more respect for Trump if he was honestly racist.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:45 PM Faith has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 277 (837142)
07-27-2018 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
07-26-2018 8:45 PM


Re: the problem
He believed what he said.

He believed it based on what exactly, Faith?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:45 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20829
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 187 of 277 (837146)
07-27-2018 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
07-26-2018 8:45 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

He believed what he said.

That would make him an idiot, and he's not an idiot. He knows his inauguration crowd wasn't the biggest in history. He's using the same strategy he always uses: lie, repeat the lie, double down on the lie, never back down from the lie. Of course when something as unambiguous as photos are involved that strategy won't work. Here are the Obama and Trump crowds. The detail in this image is fabulous, give it a look:

Trump makes mistakes,...

He sure does. Where would one start? Family separation? Starting trade wars? Attacking allies? Cozying up to dictators? Destroying confidence in American institutions? Siding with racists and white supremacists?

His trade war mistake is affecting Nevada already, by the way. This is from the Reno Gazette Journal: Escalating tariff war starting to impact Nevada businesses

...he misstates things, he's not careful about his words as he should be,...

The more commonly used term is lying.

...he's not cautious enough...

True, he rushes headlong into his lying.

...in the face of what he should know by now about his opposition,...

Yes, he should know by now that those who oppose him are not fond of lies and liars. His lying on matters both large and small is one of the reasons for opposing him.

...but most of us who voted for him think he's basically honest,...

What evidence leads you to believe he's "basically honest"? He lies at a prodigious rate, averaging about 6 false or misleading claims a day. Here's a graph up through this past May:

Here's the article that image came from - it has much more detail: In 497 days, President Trump has made 3,251 false or misleading claims

Let's take just one example of an extended Trump lie. Here's Trump's evolving story on the meeting with Russians in Trump Tower:

  • There was no meeting.
  • There was a meeting, but he didn't know about it.
  • He only knew about it after the fact, but had nothing to do with the statement to the press describing the meeting.
  • He actually drafted the statement to the press himself.
  • The meeting was about American adoptions of Russian children and never had anything to do with dirt on Hilary.
  • The agenda included dirt on Hillary, but in the end they only discussed adoptions.

Trump denies knowing about the meeting in advance, but now Michael Cohen is saying he did (Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of 2016 Trump Tower meeting), which is what everyone suspected anyway given that his son (Donald Jr.), chief policy adviser (son-in-law Jared Kushner) and campaign chief (Paul Manafort) all attended.

And this is just one single example. If I were recount all Trump's misleading statements and lies and changing stories this post would go on for pages and pages.

So given that Trump has lied constantly throughout his administration and his campaign and his entire life, what facts about him lead you to believe him honest?

...we know he is not a racist and that those accusations are spun from ill-considered comments that have nothing to do with race,...

I laid out Trump's racism in Message 137. Time you replied.

...and we think he really cares about the things he supported in his campaign speeches, which we also care about.

You mean like making America white again?

It's too bad he's got moral problems with women...

The word you're looking for is misogyny.

...but if you compare him to Clinton or Kennedy I'm not sure he's worse than either of them and the main difference is that the press left them alone for the most part, but they're ravening wolves against Trump.

Being a womanizer and philanderer does not disqualify one for high office. Engaging in coverups and payoffs and lying, not to mention possible campaign finance law violations and bank fraud, does.

I keep telling you I grew up in the New York metropolitan area. I've been reading news about Trump for like forever. He was the same sleaze-bag real estate developer then that he is now.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 07-26-2018 8:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 6:28 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 188 of 277 (837147)
07-27-2018 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Percy
07-27-2018 6:23 PM


Re: the problem
There are those who would argue with you about those things but I think I'll just cut to the chase:

It's too bad then that Trump was the only candidate among the Republicans who spoke for conservative middle America, all the others being mealy-mouthed or RINOs or liberals in Republican garb. And we still see him as sincerely on our side. The ONLY one we've ever heard "tell it like it is" from our point of view. Even the conservatives who are less than thrilled with him as a personality still feel that way about his platform.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Percy, posted 07-27-2018 6:23 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 6:52 PM Faith has replied
 Message 194 by Percy, posted 07-27-2018 8:47 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 189 of 277 (837148)
07-27-2018 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
07-27-2018 6:28 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

The ONLY one we've ever heard "tell it like it is" from our point of view.

Then why is it "telling it like it is" from your point of view is never supported by reality or evidence and in fact reality shows he is telling it like it ain't.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 6:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 7:33 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 190 of 277 (837149)
07-27-2018 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by jar
07-27-2018 6:52 PM


Re: the problem
Do you doubt that conservatives feel this way about his political stance?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 6:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 8:07 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 191 of 277 (837151)
07-27-2018 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
07-27-2018 7:33 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

Do you doubt that conservatives feel this way about his political stance?

I don't doubt that Trump supporters feel that way; but I am a Conservative, in fact a Republican Conservative, and I certainly do not feel that way.

The question is, why is the group you label as "conservative" so divorced from reality, honesty, reason, morality and all of the evidence?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 7:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 8:13 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 192 of 277 (837152)
07-27-2018 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
07-27-2018 8:07 PM


Re: the problem
You're talking about the half of the country that voted for Trump. I don't think you'd much like the adjectives i'd attach to the other half of the country, so perhaps we shouldn't go there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 8:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 07-27-2018 8:22 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 193 of 277 (837153)
07-27-2018 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
07-27-2018 8:13 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

You're talking about the half of the country that voted for Trump. I don't think you'd much like the adjectives i'd attach to the other half of the country, so perhaps we shouldn't go there.

Scary isn't it?

But if the evidence showed the other half of the country was so divorced from reality, honesty, reason, morality and all of the evidence I would think we should absolutely go there.

But the fact remains that at this time there is overwhelming evidence that the group you label as "conservatives" is divorced from reality, honesty, reason and morality. If that were not the case then they could present the evidence that supported their beliefs.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 8:13 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20829
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 194 of 277 (837154)
07-27-2018 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
07-27-2018 6:28 PM


Re: the problem
Faith writes:

There are those who would argue with you about those things...

Of course there are, especially you. You argue against facts all the time.

It's too bad then that Trump was the only candidate among the Republicans who spoke for conservative middle America,...

But he doesn't speak to conservative middle America. He gives a good show, but aside from appointing conservative judges and being against abortion, what conservative stances does he have? None.

Here are things conservatives are for that Trump is against. Conservatives are for free trade, but Trump favors tariffs and has started a trade war with the entire rest of the world. Conservatives have respect for our law and order, but Trump's been unrelenting in his denigration of his own Justice Department, especially the FBI. Conservatives are for promoting liberty and democratic values around the world, but Trump cozies up to dictators. Conservatives are for working with allies to oppose threats against the west, yet he's castigated NATO and praised the Russians. Conservatives are for preventing foreign interference in our elections, yet Trump still won't admit that Russia interfered in the 2016 election and is doing nothing to prevent it from happening again this year.

Any of the other Republican candidates would have appointed conservative judges and been against abortion, just like Trump, but unlike Trump they would have supported all the other conservative positions that Trump opposes. So why do you like Trump? He gives good campaign rally?

...all the others being mealy-mouthed or RINOs or liberals in Republican garb.

That's not true. Trump exceeded the better Republican candidates only in being a very entertaining speaker, a superior verbal bully, and a fluent liar.

And we still see him as sincerely on our side.

After looking at the list of conservative positions he does not support, how can you say that? Plus he's a liar extraordinaire.

The ONLY one we've ever heard "tell it like it is" from our point of view.

He's not telling you the truth. He's only telling you what you want to hear.

Even the conservatives who are less than thrilled with him as a personality still feel that way about his platform.

Platform? Platforms are for campaigns. But anyway, most of the elements of Trump's "platform" are not traditional conservative positions.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 6:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 07-27-2018 8:55 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 715 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 195 of 277 (837155)
07-27-2018 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Percy
07-27-2018 8:47 PM


Re: the problem
Golly gosh, that must be why the other half of the country was so blindsided by Trump's win, just no clue to how he appealed to so many of us. And still does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Percy, posted 07-27-2018 8:47 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Percy, posted 07-28-2018 8:22 AM Faith has replied
 Message 197 by jar, posted 07-28-2018 8:24 AM Faith has taken no action

  
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