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Author | Topic: Evangelical Switch from Pro-choice to Anti-abortion | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: What we have said is that the decision should not be simply based on a timeline, But the law that you say you agree with *is* based on a timeline.
that we do not have sufficient information, that we are not the people to make such decisions and that our personal opinions do not matter and are irrelevant. Well that's jolly useful on a debate forum. The world will just have to get along without your contributions to public health policy.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
Again, please learn to read. I also did not say I agreed with the law. What I said was that I do not have, and cannot have sufficient information to have an informed opinion and that I really should not have any opinion on the subject in general. And the law is not based on a simple timeline but rather on the total sum of information available to the mother, possibly father and the medical staff in that particular instance.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: What I said was that I do not have, and cannot have sufficient information to have an informed opinion and that I really should not have any opinion on the subject in general. So the only opinion you have about a woman deciding to kill her unborn baby 1/10 of a second before it is born is that you have no opinion. But 1/10 of a second later you do? Or do you not?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tangle writes: So the only opinion you have about a woman deciding to kill her unborn baby 1/10 of a second before it is born is that you have no opinion. But 1/10 of a second later you do? Or do you not? Yet more utter dishonesty from you it seems. The topic is abortion, not killing. Once a child is born it is impossible to abort it. And yes, as I have said, I have no opinion on the issue and should have no opinion on the issue and no one other than the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance should have an opinion.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: The topic is abortion, not killing You think that killing a baby 1/10 of a second before it is born is different from killing a baby 1/10 of a second after? Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The topic is abortion, not killing.
Tangle, why do you insist on repeating your misrepresentations? AbE: And yet again. Once a child is born it is impossible to abort that child. And also once again, my opinion is, and should be, irrelevant. Edited by jar, : see AbE
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: The topic is abortion, not killing. With 1/10 of a second, the topic is killing. I understand why you wish to hide behind semantics but that's all you're doing. But if you insist, you think it ok to abort a foetus 1/10 second before birth but that it is wrong to kill a baby 1/10 of a second afterwards?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tangle writes: But if you insist, you think it ok to abort a foetus 1/10 second before birth but that it is wrong to kill a baby 1/10 of a second afterwards? Yet more dishonesty from you. Please learn to read. I try to use little words for you but it doesn't seem to help. What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance. So you feel that its entirely up to the woman if she kills/aborts her baby 1/10 of a second before birth and you feel ok with that?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
tangle,to jar writes: Keep in mind that he mentioned that the decision should be on a case by case basis and should involve the parents(usually) and the medical professionals. Earlier, you said that the decision should be left to the individuals So you feel that its entirely up to the woman if she kills/aborts her baby 1/10 of a second before birth and you feel ok with that?Tangle writes: You mentioned that the medical experts would tell us when such a date would be. Thus is it true that you advocate a definite point beyond which there is no option? Only up to a semi-arbitrary date.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tangle writes: So you feel that its entirely up to the woman if she kills/aborts her baby 1/10 of a second before birth and you feel ok with that? And you continue to misrepresent what I have said. Classic Cult of Ignorance dishonesty from you. No that is not anything I have said or even implied. So let me repeat what my position has been yet again and this time, please try to read slowly. What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance.
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Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I think what Tangle means to suggest is that the medical staff should be bound by some sort of consensual law.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Keep in mind that he mentioned that the decision should be on a case by case basis and should involve the parents(usually) and the medical professionals. That's all irrelevant Phat. His position is that it's none of his business, the mother can do as she sees fit. So the question becomes why should she be allowed to kill her baby 1/10 second before it is born but not 1/10 of a second after. (Assuming this is purely an elective abortion.).
You mentioned that the medical experts would tell us when such a date would be. Thus is it true that you advocate a definite point beyond which there is no option? Yes. Though that point will change as medical knowledge changes. Again, assuming a purely elective procedure.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance. Do you say the same about a mother who kills her child 1/10 of a second after birth. If not why not?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance. So would you argue against there being a law that dictates any decisions?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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