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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 762 (838333)
08-19-2018 4:05 PM


Percy writes:
There was some discussion up thread about Stephen Pinker's thesis that the world is on an improving trend of declining violence. Not that this isn't true, but it's an emergent property of increasing wealth. If/when wealth declines so will the trend of declining violence, along with other positive trends, such as declining wars, declining poverty, improving health and longevity, etc.
Ted Talks runs a weekly radio show of interviews and Ted Talk excerpts of people who have given Ted Talks, and this week's included Stephen Pinker talking about his book The Better Angels of Our Nature, the one that Tangle referenced up thread that sparked this side discussion.
Also on the show was Paul Gilding, former Greenpeace director and a Fellow at the University of Cambridge's Institute for Sustainability Leadership. Gilding spoke about his book The Great Disruption: Why the Climate Crisis Will Bring On the End of Shopping and the Birth of a New World. Gilding's thesis is that The Earth is Full (the title of his Ted Talk), and that a number of current trends are running in the wrong direction, climate change being the most significant driver of change, but sustainability of resources, food production and pollution also being important. Gilding is optimistic, believing that civilization will survive, though not without massive catastrophes first.
Some conclude from Pinker's ideas that mankind is getting better, that we are learning. We are not. Evolution doesn't work that fast. We're still the violent, brutish thugs we were 200,000 years ago. Our wealth (i.e., our improving ability to take advantage of natural resources) has enabled us to evolve increasingly enlightened societies that emphasize freedom, happiness, and health. But there's only one Earth, and as Earth's human population presses toward and then past 8 billion it will reach its limit of how much humanity it can sustain, particularly as we spectacularly fail to address climate change.
It cannot be predicted whether this will happen as a gradual decline or as a crash. I suspect the former but punctuated by spectacular disasters of both climate and food. But whatever the pace of this change, it will bring with it increasing violence and decreasing freedom, happiness, and health as nation-states battle over resources with the nuclear threat ever present. Our primary hope must be that science and technology somehow win the race against climate change, but this possibility is in the hands of politicians who in many western countries, by far the most powerful block of countries in the world, are given power by electorates too dominated by blockheads swayed by the arguments of populists, scaremongers, haters and reality show hosts.
This deserves a thread of its own. Tangle would likely argue that the world is getting better. Faith (and I) would argue that the world is getting worse or at best still mired in the violent brutish thug phase that Percy mentions.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 08-19-2018 4:11 PM Phat has replied
 Message 5 by Diomedes, posted 08-20-2018 2:51 PM Phat has replied
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 08-22-2018 4:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 762 (838336)
08-19-2018 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
08-19-2018 4:11 PM


Re: What the world is really is irrelevant.
Perhaps, but if we don't do fine in this neck of the woods, there may arise some major conflicts.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 08-19-2018 4:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 08-19-2018 4:47 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 762 (838382)
08-20-2018 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Diomedes
08-20-2018 2:51 PM


Percy? Care to weigh in on this?
Diomedes writes:
The world is most certainly getting better. It only gives the impression of being worse because we have access to so much more information nowadays. So every time something bad happens or some crisis manifests, everyone knows about it.
I agree that we are getting better overall. I also agree with jar that no religion should gain (or maintain) power...secular humanism is inevitable. Oddly, I still cling to my belief that prophecy is real, however...and that God acts through others. I believe that there will again be a major war that will be bigger than WW II. In a way, we are already in the early stages of this war, and I believe that jar (and others) will see evidence of the brutish thug nature...that Percy claims we have never evolved out of and which some religious minds refer to as original sin.
Im not wishing for nor hoping for this scenario to play out...I have no need for the end times religious dogma to be proven true in any way simply to say that my belief was right.
I hope that we humans can sidestep this land mine.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Diomedes, posted 08-20-2018 2:51 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 762 (838383)
08-20-2018 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Diomedes
08-20-2018 2:51 PM


For Better Or Worse
The biggest threat I see is climate change. It will radically change the biosphere of the planet and will likely displace millions of people over the next few hundred years. We could be taking better steps to mitigate this, but many individuals who have a vested interest in the status quo (Koch brothers), take steps to spread disinformation.
The biggest threat I see is overpopulation combined with climate change. Humans will fight other humans in a competitive environment.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Diomedes, posted 08-20-2018 2:51 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 762 (838384)
08-20-2018 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
08-19-2018 4:47 PM


Re: What the world is really is irrelevant.
Looking inward at my own "brutish thug nature"...and contemplating if I have the ability and the will to override it.....
jar writes:
What is do fine?living a comfortable life rather than a life of hurt and struggle..
What is this neck of the world? the aging middle class in the US. baby boomers used to having more than they may end up with
And what major conflicts? the ones we are in now...and our president creates more tension...showing resolution only with dictators...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 08-19-2018 4:47 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-20-2018 4:50 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 762 (838387)
08-20-2018 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
08-20-2018 4:50 PM


Re: What the world is really is irrelevant.
What major conflicts are we in now?
Trade wars and ideology wars with other cultures.
And just what will those aging middle class in the US. baby boomers who are used to having more than they may end up with do?
The populists will want a dictator if necessary. The rest of them will try and patch the hole in the ship....in vain. the bill will get paid and we will die poorer, I suppose.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-20-2018 4:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 08-20-2018 5:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 762 (838412)
08-21-2018 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
08-20-2018 5:43 PM


Re: What the world is really is irrelevant.
jar writes:
There is a wannabe dictator now but what does reality show? What programs has he been able to actually implement?
Basically, the tax cut was his main one. Conspiracy theorists and end time nut jobs may well argue that if a global or domestic crisis ensued, he could legally implement martial law to a limited degree...which would make him more than a wannabe at that point.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 08-20-2018 5:43 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 08-21-2018 11:55 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 762 (838443)
08-21-2018 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
08-21-2018 11:55 AM


Re: What the world is really is irrelevant.
ringo writes:
A dictator can always use a crisis - like the Reichstag fire - as an excuse but that has nothing to do with whether the world is "better" or "worse" either.
Just this last year, the excuse for a 715 billion dollar military budget getting passed was due to Kim Jong Un having nuclear capability. (The excuse)
If a rogue warhead or two decimated a prime financial or military center in the world (picture 9-11 with 5 nukes instead of 5 planes) it would definitely become a crisis...one which would allow Trump unprecedented power.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 08-21-2018 11:55 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 08-21-2018 10:00 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 762 (838454)
08-22-2018 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
08-21-2018 10:00 PM


The Popular Vote
Trump isn't quite there yet. He never won the popular vote, after all....but I believe that in the event of a crisis he would simply use what executive powers he has now to seize control. The military is a key too. No wonder we spend $700 billion a year to keep them happy.
And the populists would be glad to have a "man of God" in power during such a crisis. Nevermind that he isn't.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 08-21-2018 10:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 08-22-2018 12:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 762 (839167)
09-04-2018 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Percy
09-04-2018 1:10 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
I agree with you except I would modify one of your sentences.
When societies crumble then violence and chaos and cruelty quickly reemerge.
I agree that the social veneer is kept in place through improved standards of living.
Throw us in a depression globally and take away our cushy lives but give us access to the weapons of mass destruction (or the ability to vote into power someone who does) and our similarity to Nazi Germany will not only equal but exceed their barbarity. We may catch ourselves before we slip so far down, but necessity is a mother!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Percy, posted 09-04-2018 1:10 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 3:58 PM Phat has replied
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 09-04-2018 4:06 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 762 (839170)
09-04-2018 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
09-04-2018 4:06 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
The difference between now and then is the monumental national debt. Would you not agree? We couldn't simply create a social safety net out of thin air were it the US alone that suffers the next major depression, as jar seems to suggest.
The challenge for the US citizen in general, and notably the authoritarian populists specifically is to maintain our composure while the rest of the world moves on ahead of us.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 09-04-2018 4:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 6:30 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 762 (862922)
09-17-2019 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by caffeine
08-28-2018 3:02 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Someone brought up something or other that caused me to search the EvC database for an appropriate topic...which I found. Lo and behold, I originated it! Percy seems to have framed it the best, however, so I will requote him here to get things rolling!
quote:
My comment that "we're still the violent, brutish thugs we were 200,000 years ago" was in the context of evolution. We are not improving as a species regarding qualities like kindness, generosity, peacefulness, empathy, etc. To whatever degree, we as a species possessed those qualities, and their opposites, 200,000 years ago, we still own them to the same degree today. Evolution doesn't work that fast.
Any improvements that we, as a species appear to have demonstrated are societal and cultural improvements that result from increasing wealth. The more wealthy a society, the more generous it can afford to be. When that wealth dissipates, then the positive qualities of the society and culture also drop away. We've seen this in all the hotspots around the world, from Somalia to Sudan to Gaza to the Boko Haram to ISIS to the Taliban.
As climate change and diminishing resources rob us of our wealth they will also rob us of the trappings of civilization. We see it already in the rise of right-wing influences in the western world that encourages a culture of "I've got mine, I'm keeping it, I'm not sharing it, you're not like me, you keep away." The irony is that many of the people displaying such attitudes don't actually have much. They're much more in need of a culture of sharing and mutual support and working together across our differences toward common goals than those who do support such policies. (...)The western world is to the point now where it can afford to implement a health and social safety net (more so in other parts of the western world than in the United States), but we do this not because of some enlightenment that has come upon our species but because we can afford to believe that our obligations to our fellow man include these things. In earlier times when we couldn't afford them then we didn't believe our obligations included them.
What happens should our prosperity diminish to the point where we can no longer afford these things? The answer is both obvious and inevitable: they will go away. A country cannot pay for what it cannot afford. It's already happening here in the United States. Welfare, radically transformed under Bill Clinton, is a shadow of its former self. The retirement age for Social Security has already crept up to 66 and will continue to creep up. It is already part of the law that Social Security benefits will shrink to 75% around 2034 if the trust fund becomes depleted as expected. The Trump administration wants to reduce Medicare benefits.
Some will argue that the United States is richer than ever and that this diminishment of benefits is being driven by increasing selfishness. But the truth is that the US is both richer than ever and becoming increasingly poor. These are both happening because of wealth inequality. Wealth is concentrated among a very few who are growing increasingly wealthy. The rest of the country is becoming increasingly poor and hence is becoming increasingly against redistribution programs that they see as taking their money and giving it to someone else. There is some incongruity and illogic involved in these feelings, but I won't get into that now.
While the US provides an example of the political effects of decreasing wealth, it isn't due to climate change or diminishing natural resources. The people of the US are doing it to themselves through financial and tax legislation that overly benefits the wealthy at the expense of everyone else. How did this happen? Some trace it back to the Reagan administration, and while I'm not so sure myself that's a discussion for a different thread.
The important point is that diminishing wealth causes people to adopt attitudes of a decreasing sense of obligation toward their fellow man, and climate change is going to make us poorer. It's already starting as waters creep inland along coastlines worldwide, including the US. This is from today's Washington Post:
She thought she’d sell her home for nearly $1 million. Thanks to rising sea levels, she’s tearing it down instead.
Elizabeth Boineau is one of many homeowners on the front lines of society’s confrontation with climate change, living in houses where rising sea levels have worsened flooding not just in extreme events like hurricanes, but also heavy rains and even high tides. The increase is undermining the value of coastal properties, according to three studies.
By John Tibbetts and Chris Mooney
I could take the attitude that, hey, it won't affect me, I'm 400 feet above sea level, but that would be wrong. While I won't experience the devastating loss of people along the coasts I'll still experience the loss because as my country becomes poorer then I'll become poorer, we'll all become poorer. Our crops will suffer, fishing banks will continue to diminish, the weather will become more severe, fires will become more common. Then there's diminishing natural resources. Water will become more scarce, pollution of our air and water will increase, oil and gas will become more scarce.
Will our technology save us? For climate change, it's already too late. Politically the world isn't equipped to unite to fight a scourge whose effects are gradual and whose worst consequences are decades in the future. We've frittered away too much time, so it doesn't matter what technology is able to achieve, climate change is going to happen anyway. By the end of the century average global temperature will be several degrees higher (I believe current projections of an increase of only a degree or two are low).
But will technology enable us to adapt to our transformed world? Pardon my pessimism, but given that year after year we can't even control wildfires in the west, and we'll certainly never be able to control hurricanes and tornados and droughts and floods and rising seas, I doubt it.
--Percy
jar writes:
What major conflicts are we in now?
Trade wars and ideology wars with other cultures.
jar writes:
So far those would not count as major conflicts in the real world.
Anything that affects *me* counts as a major conflict. And I predict that the Trade Wars are early opening salvos as China takes over the US spot of dominant economic global power.
There is a good video on YouTube about trade wars. Patrick Bet David has street smarts and an intuitive feel for the topic:
Tangle writes:
f we ignore wealth for the moment, I think we can accept that progress in our civilization has been made through the application of our growing knowledge which we've gained using our intelligence. That's a form of evolution, whether it's biological or not is academic.
In this new book that I am reading, Jesus Among Secular Gods which I will soon start a Book Nook topic on, has a lot to say about the philosophical clash of world views that are already happening. They don't predict a crisis but make a strong case for the world view of the Biblical Christians which the rest of us are so wary of.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

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 Message 38 by caffeine, posted 08-28-2018 3:02 PM caffeine has not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 762 (862923)
09-17-2019 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by jar
09-04-2018 3:58 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
jar writes:
But what about a depression that is not global but just the US?
If we keep the Populist "Christians" away from the button, we should survive. As an advocate of reformed Judaism and logic, reason, and reality, you won't like the culture war with the Biblical Christians, though. And they all have guns! Come to think of it, so do you!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 3:58 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 762 (862940)
09-17-2019 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
09-04-2018 4:06 PM


A Kind Society or a Selfish one?
Percy writes:
One counterpoint that can be thrown at the idea that a society is only as kind as it can afford to be is to ask why the Depression didn't create a less compassionate country.
Quite frankly I think that people are greedier now and more materialistic, in general. I worry about "stuff"...and money...more than my parents did when they were younger. They had nearly nothing and yet were happy. Affluence ruined a generation of Americans and it reflects in our political attitudes and division.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 09-04-2018 4:06 PM Percy has not replied

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 Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2019 2:35 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 762 (862941)
09-17-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
09-04-2018 6:30 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
jar writes:
The challenge is to stop the madness that is current Conservatism and Neo-Fascism and spend our wealth on improving the general quality of life.
What wealth, though? We are collectively in debt. How much are we to spend without sacrificing our own quality of life? I'm all for spare change, but we need to define what we have, what we need, and what *they* need. And who is *they*? Are we expected to support the whole world?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 6:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 09-17-2019 12:51 PM Phat has replied

  
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