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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 403
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 181 of 353 (838708)
08-26-2018 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
That is the role of charity, which he also mentions: we should give to help the poor, and that is an obligation felt by religious people as he points out, but not by atheists and socialists...

You are both ignorant and a liar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 403
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 182 of 353 (838709)
08-26-2018 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
It works as long as the socialistic part doesn't get too big...

Interestingly enough, that's how I'd describe the role of leafy green vegetables in a healthy diet. People who don't eat them tend to get ill. People who fetishize them and eat nothing else also get sick.

A balanced diet, OTOH, requires a bit of thought. Did you read post 167? Do you understand how a mixed economy works? Do you understand that virtually no one advocates total state control of the economy? Have you noticed how quickly self-described conservatives wet their Depends when it is proposed to end a government program that affects them?

When you throw around the word socialism, you are committing the basic semantic fallacy of addressing the word instead of the thing. I understand the motivation. It saves you having to think. Next time someone proposes a program or policy, try looking at the thing itself, rather than throwing a though-stopping label at it.

You are, in essence, screaming "My hippie cousin tried to live on an all carrot diet and died so vegetables are bad."

Shapiro is saying "Well sure people eat salad, but they only get away with it because they eat other stuff too." Well no shit, Sherlock. Ever consider trying to look at a variety of diets, quantify their balance of inputs, and apply it to your own situation? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's the real and tedious work of the thousands of people who actually do it, and doesn't make for a quick buck on the "here today, gone tomorrow" monetized celeb circuit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 183 of 353 (838710)
08-26-2018 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-26-2018 8:58 AM


Re: Socialism
Faith writes:

... atheists and socialists who think the poor should be helped by robbing the rich.


Atheists and socialists and Jesus.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 8:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-26-2018 2:28 PM ringo has responded
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:27 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 184 of 353 (838711)
08-26-2018 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by ringo
08-26-2018 2:14 PM


Robber Barons
If I recall, Jesus never advocated robbing anyone. I was always taught that the Lord loves a cheerful giver and that one should give willingly rather than being forced.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 2:14 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 186 by jar, posted 08-26-2018 3:04 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 185 of 353 (838712)
08-26-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Thugpreacha
08-26-2018 2:28 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Phat writes:

If I recall, Jesus never advocated robbing anyone.


That's just a stupid inflammatory word that Faith used. Jesus did advocate paying your taxes and that's how the money is transferred from rich to poor.

Phat writes:

I was always taught that the Lord loves a cheerful giver and that one should give willingly rather than being forced.


Are you being forced to pay your taxes? Did Jesus tell you to pay your taxes?

Jesus did tell the rich man to sell what he had and give to the poor.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-26-2018 2:28 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:32 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31262
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 186 of 353 (838713)
08-26-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Thugpreacha
08-26-2018 2:28 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Phat writes:

I was always taught that the Lord loves a cheerful giver and that one should give willingly rather than being forced.

Correct Phat, if you have to be forced to do what needs doing then Jesus knows you are just a Goat. Whenever you begrudge giving Jesus cries.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 187 of 353 (838714)
08-26-2018 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Tangle
08-26-2018 11:19 AM


Socialism is theft
It's really, really strange that people that call themselve ‘Christians' admire people and vote for economic systems that are the exact opposite of what Jesus's teachings would tell them. I’ll never understand that.

You don't have to, because it's not true. Jesus' advocates generous cheerful giving, and hands-on help for those who need it, He certainly doesn't advocate robbing the rich (or really, the middle class) to take care of the poor.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 188 of 353 (838715)
08-26-2018 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:14 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:

Jesus' advocates generous cheerful giving, hands-on help for those who need it, He certainly doesn't advocate robbing the rich (or really, the middle class) to take care of the poor.


Nobody advocates robbing the rich.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:14 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:22 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 353 (838716)
08-26-2018 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Capt Stormfield
08-26-2018 12:09 PM


Re: Socialism
Or, in other words, successfully socialized countries aren't really socialized because socialism doesn't work. Gosh, I wonder what's really under that kilt....

A few socialistic programs built on top of a capitalist economy is not a "successfully socialized country" and in any case, yes, it doesn't work. As Shapire lays it out it has unseen effects that add up to econimic disaster that always brings in a right-wing government to try to straighten it out. I find that very interesting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Capt Stormfield, posted 08-26-2018 12:09 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Capt Stormfield, posted 08-26-2018 3:53 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 353 (838717)
08-26-2018 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:17 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Nobody advocates robbing the rich.

No, of course they don't honestly advocate it, they use socialistic euphemisms to cover the fact that they simply DO rob the rich.... and the middle class.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:25 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 191 of 353 (838718)
08-26-2018 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:22 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:

they use socialistic euphemisms to cover the fact that they simply DO rob the rich....


Taxation is not a euphemism for robbery.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:22 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:28 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 192 of 353 (838719)
08-26-2018 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by ringo
08-26-2018 2:14 PM


Re: Socialism
... atheists and socialists who think the poor should be helped by robbing the rich.

Atheists and socialists and Jesus.

What *I* have trouble understanding is how anyone could impute the advocacy of theft to Jesus.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 2:14 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 353 (838720)
08-26-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by ringo
08-26-2018 3:25 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Taxation is not a euphemism for robbery.

Not if it's for legitimate governmental uses such as public works, but in the hands of a socialist government robbery is exactly what it is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:32 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 194 of 353 (838721)
08-26-2018 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Faith
08-26-2018 3:28 PM


Re: Socialism is theft
Faith writes:

Not if it's for legitimate governmental uses such as public works, but in the hands of a socialist government robbery is exactly what it is.


That's bizarre. If it's collected as taxes, as Jesus advocated, and used to help the poor, as Jesus advocated, it's robbery?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 08-26-2018 3:37 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32898
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 195 of 353 (838722)
08-26-2018 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by ringo
08-26-2018 2:44 PM


Re: Robber Barons
That's just a stupid inflammatory word that Faith used. Jesus did advocate paying your taxes and that's how the money is transferred from rich to poor.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Roman Empire wasn't a welfare state. They built a lot of their famous Roman roads and famous aqueducts as I recall, and they paid their armies and other public servants, and did other legitimate public works with the taxes.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 2:44 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by ringo, posted 08-26-2018 3:34 PM Faith has responded

    
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