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Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 824 of 882 (835575)
06-25-2018 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by GDR
06-25-2018 12:04 PM


Re: heretics
GDR writes:
No Jew would concoct a story about a crucified messiah.
You can't assume that nobody "would" make up such a thing so it must be true. You might as well say that nobody "would" climb Mount Everest or go to the ISS if he/she was afraid of heights. You don't have the data to back up that assumption.
GDR writes:
In addition to that we have people sacrificing their lives for this belief right from the beginning.
So did the Mormons.
GDR writes:
You can say that they were somehow mistaken as to what happened but it is nonsense to contend that they just made the whole thing up.
It seem to me that it's your assumptions that are nonsense.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 12:04 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 825 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 12:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 827 of 882 (835578)
06-25-2018 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by GDR
06-25-2018 12:31 PM


Re: heretics
GDR writes:
My point was that they believed it to be true which does not make it true.
Whether or not they believed it was true is irrelevant.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 12:31 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 12:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 829 of 882 (835580)
06-25-2018 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by GDR
06-25-2018 12:47 PM


Re: heretics
GDR writes:
If they didn't believe it and they knew it to be fiction then there is no reason to pay any attention to it.
There is no reason to pay attention to it because we know its fiction.
GDR writes:
If they believe it then we can come to our own conclusions about whether it is true or not.
Again, whether or not they believed it was true is irrelevant. Our own conclusions should be based only on facts. It could be true even if they thought it was fiction - or it could be false even if they thought it was true.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 12:47 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 1:15 PM ringo has replied
 Message 838 by Phat, posted 06-25-2018 3:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 832 of 882 (835583)
06-25-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by GDR
06-25-2018 1:15 PM


Re: heretics
GDR writes:
You have concluded it is fiction. I disagree.
It isn't a matter of opinion. There isn't enough evidence to conclude that it is historical fact. Fiction is the default conclusion.
GDR writes:
If they are knowlingly writing fiction then we have no conclusion to draw.
On the contrary, we always have a conclusion to draw, independent of the claims and/or beliefs of the authors.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 831 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 1:15 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 835 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 1:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 836 of 882 (835588)
06-25-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by GDR
06-25-2018 1:56 PM


Re: heretics
GDR writes:
There is for me.
History is not a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinion on whether an event really happened or not but don't pretend that your opinion "makes sense" and that the default conclusion is "nonsense".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by GDR, posted 06-25-2018 1:56 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 839 of 882 (835591)
06-25-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 838 by Phat
06-25-2018 3:18 PM


Re: heretics
Phat writes:
*we* have arrived at no such consensus.
Yes we have. Resurrections don't happen.
Phat writes:
you simply jumped on a convenient bandwagon...but it's hardly the only one.
You're the one on the religious bandwagon - and you're right that there's a whole parade of them.
Phat writes:
Ask yourself what facts you have. Where did you get them? What reasons do you have for accepting them?
We all have the same facts. The difference is that you choose to ignore the facts that don't fit your beliefs and to augment the facts with fiction.
Phat writes:
And perhaps the legend still exists because many people need what I need.
That's exactly it. People need - or think they need - a crutch, so the legend continues. The perceived need does not make the legend true. And the lack of need by some of us calls into question whether the need you perceive is real. Maybe it's time for you to rise, take up thy bed and walk.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Phat, posted 06-25-2018 3:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 860 of 882 (835702)
06-28-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 859 by Faith
06-28-2018 9:49 AM


Re: Scriptural Acrobatics
Faith writes:
There are so many references in scripture to real historical people and events I would think that might cause you to consider it historical. I suppose you just figure the writers stuck in some facts to make it seem real though, right?
That's what Ian Fleming did with the James Bond stories.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 859 by Faith, posted 06-28-2018 9:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 866 of 882 (835730)
06-29-2018 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 865 by Phat
06-29-2018 11:44 AM


Re: Scriptural Acrobatics
Phat writes:
You've lumped all of them together!
Yes!

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 865 by Phat, posted 06-29-2018 11:44 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 870 of 882 (835736)
06-29-2018 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 868 by Phat
06-29-2018 2:18 PM


Re: I wish I was special...so very special
Phat writes:
Again, I believe that all gods are inventions and/or demons. Except One.
Why did you just happen to be born into the one society on earth that believes in the One True God? Why isn't it more likely that your God is no truer than the others?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 868 by Phat, posted 06-29-2018 2:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 877 of 882 (836007)
07-07-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 874 by Phat
07-06-2018 8:27 PM


Re: Just One Deity
Phat writes:
GDR is suggesting that at the root we all seek to know the GOD WHO is.
Be honest. You're not seeking "The God Who Is". You're seeking "The God Who Has a Son Named Jesus". And you're not really seeking Him either. You think you've found Him.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 874 by Phat, posted 07-06-2018 8:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 879 of 882 (838875)
08-29-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 878 by Phat
08-29-2018 9:38 AM


Re: Revising The Book
Phat writes:
Not all of them!
I'm not watching your video. If you have a point to make, you'll have to do it in your own words.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 878 by Phat, posted 08-29-2018 9:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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