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Author | Topic: Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: It was interesting to learn that the tithe included money to help strangers and widows and orphans since I thought there were other provisions made for them, etc So was the tithe theft under Moses?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I gave the example of Ananias and Sapphira to show that there is no principle of giving everything required. You take a specific text and extend it to a principle without any warrant, and you want me to prove that's wrong?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I thought I clearly said I don't consider it theft.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: I thought I clearly said I don't consider it theft. How come a mandatoy tax is theft when a government does it but not theft when Moses does it? Mandatory was your test.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm rethinking SOME of the questions here.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Good luck with that, I'm sure you'll find a loophole somewhere that satisfies you but no-one else.
Best be quick though, you've only got another 48 hours or so. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But Ananias and Sapphira were punished for holding back. How does that support your position?
I gave the example of Ananias and Sapphira to show that there is no principle of giving everything required. Faith writes:
I took an example from the Old Testament and two examples from the New Testament to show that it wasn't an isolated idea. Your own example from the New Testament also seems to support what I'm saying.
You take a specific text and extend it to a principle without any warrant... Faith writes:
I want you to prove that my conclusion from the examples is wrong. ...and you want me to prove that's wrong?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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frako Member (Idle past 326 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
You should run for the new pope so the church does not get anything wrong ever again.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, as I said, Ananias and Saphira were not punished for holding back since they had every right to dispose of their property as they wished, they were punished for lying about it. That is very clear in the text.
What was the other NT example? Neither of those I answered show anything but a specific situation, not a principle. Id did prove that it is not a principle by the example of Ananias and Saphhira.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That isn't what it says:
...they were punished for lying about it. That is very clear in the text.quote:What they did wrong was lying AND keeping back part of the land. Faith writes:
1. Jesus telling the rich man to sell what he had and give to the poor. What was the other NT example?2. The lady giving all she had while the rich men held back. And in the Old Testament:1. Elijah telling the widow to give him all of her food (TELLING her, mind you, despite her protests). 2. Achan, who was punished for holding back some of the spoils from a captured Canaanite city. (I didn't mention that one before.) These examples are just off the top of my head. There may be more.
Faith writes:
A plethora of examples suggests a principle. Have you given a counter-example at all? Neither of those I answered show anything but a specific situation, not a principle.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. IF there is any impolication that they were wrong to keep it back it could only be because they'd promised to give it all and then changed their mind or something like that because clearly they had no obligation to give iit all otherwise as the verse above says very clearly. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I answered all your examples except Achan, and he stole the stuff against the clear command not to touch any of it. What does that have to do with a principle of giving all?
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The verse says nothing of the kind. It says that their violation was lying and holding back, period. You can take your crayon and write in that they would not have been punished if they ha only held back the land, but that isn't what the verse says. ... they had no obligation to give iit all otherwise as the verse above says very clearly. What the whole incident illustrates is that the early Church considered giving everything to be an important principle. Maybe because of what Jesus said to the rich man, or maybe because it was an important principle going back to Old Testament times.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
All you did was claim that they were isolated examples. How many examples do you need before they're not isolated any more?
I answered all your examples... Faith writes:
He was told to give it all and he didn't. How much plainer could it get? ... except Achan, and he stole the stuff against the clear command not to touch any of it. What does that have to do with a principle of giving all? Achan stole from the community and the community is equated with God. Remember, the tithe belongs to God but is used by the community. Similarly, the spoils of war belong to God but are used by the community. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills but they are used by the community.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
No. Public wqrks is a function of every responsible government, it is not socialism. No. Public works is for the nation itself, socialism takes from some to give to others. Okay, lets follow the logic. Taxes are collected without your consent from the private sector in order to fund various public programs, like fire, police, public works, courts, libraries, public transportation, etc. How do you not understand that is, on the most basic level, socialism? "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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