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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 252 of 353 (838854)
08-29-2018 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by ringo
08-29-2018 12:17 PM


Re: Robber Barons
It's not the same message. It's ludicrous to say it is. (Since when soes "From each according to his ability" imply giving up EVERYTHING?)
There is no principle implied in Elijah's request to the widow, it was a specific test of faith which is what the miracle of the neverending supply was built on.
No theologian says Jesus' advice to the young man was intended as a principle for all, it's always treated as specific to his spiritual condition.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 254 of 353 (838858)
08-29-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by ringo
08-29-2018 12:30 PM


Re: Robber Barons
All you guys who claim to "go by the text" misread the text.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:34 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 257 of 353 (838864)
08-29-2018 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by ringo
08-29-2018 12:34 PM


Re: Robber Barons
I gave the example of Ananias and Sapphira to show that there is no principle of giving everything required. You take a specific text and extend it to a principle without any warrant, and you want me to prove that's wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:34 PM ringo has replied

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 Message 262 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 1:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 258 of 353 (838865)
08-29-2018 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Tangle
08-29-2018 12:38 PM


Re: Robber Barons
I thought I clearly said I don't consider it theft.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2018 12:38 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2018 12:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 260 of 353 (838870)
08-29-2018 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Tangle
08-29-2018 12:43 PM


Re: Robber Barons
I'm rethinking SOME of the questions here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2018 12:43 PM Tangle has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 264 of 353 (838879)
08-29-2018 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
08-29-2018 1:03 PM


Re: Robber Barons
No, as I said, Ananias and Saphira were not punished for holding back since they had every right to dispose of their property as they wished, they were punished for lying about it. That is very clear in the text.
What was the other NT example? Neither of those I answered show anything but a specific situation, not a principle.
Id did prove that it is not a principle by the example of Ananias and Saphhira.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 1:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 2:51 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 266 of 353 (838889)
08-29-2018 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ringo
08-29-2018 2:51 PM


Re: Robber Barons
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
IF there is any impolication that they were wrong to keep it back it could only be because they'd promised to give it all and then changed their mind or something like that because clearly they had no obligation to give iit all otherwise as the verse above says very clearly.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 267 of 353 (838890)
08-29-2018 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ringo
08-29-2018 2:51 PM


Re: Robber Barons
I answered all your examples except Achan, and he stole the stuff against the clear command not to touch any of it. What does that have to do with a principle of giving all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 2:51 PM ringo has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 271 of 353 (838903)
08-30-2018 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Hyroglyphx
08-30-2018 12:56 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Here's a Wikipedia article on welfare programs. These things are socialism. None of those things you list are mentioned.
My definition is something like this: Taxes for running the government, public works, infrastructure, etc, are like a fee we pay for those services. Welfare, on the other hand, goes to individuals who perform no services and earn none of it. That's socialism.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-30-2018 12:56 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by JonF, posted 08-30-2018 9:25 AM Faith has replied
 Message 306 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-03-2018 12:58 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 353 (838906)
08-30-2018 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by JonF
08-30-2018 9:25 AM


Socialism
Most welfare recipients work. Welfare fraud is very rare.
I can't dispute or verify your facts, but nevertheless the principle of welfare is that they are given money they didn't earn, whether they earn other money or not. It's a matter of definition.
And I'm changing my mind about this anyway thanks to the information about the tithe in ancient Israel going to the support of widows, orphans and strangers, and about the Roman Empire's giving of food to the poor. I'm also for the uses Tangle said the UK makes of their welfare money, education, health care etc.
The main problem with all of this is that there is far more need than there is money to support it, which is the economic argument from the conservative side. Ben Shapiro says for instance that even in the countries most often commended for their socialist programs, such as Norway, there are economic problems that aren't usually mentioned. I'm not in a position to argue this point, I'm just including it as necessary information. If the cause of our trillions of debt is the funding of such programs, they have to be declared a monumental failure, don't they?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 275 by ringo, posted 08-30-2018 11:41 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 276 of 353 (838911)
08-30-2018 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
08-30-2018 11:41 AM


Re: Socialism
No, the solution must be that we keep racking up the debt until we're owned and governed by Communist China. Obviously.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 280 of 353 (838916)
08-30-2018 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by JonF
08-30-2018 12:15 PM


Re: Socialism
Earlier I looked up what level of income is classed in the upper 1% category and was surprised. I was expecting huge incomes in the upper multiple millions at least and find that the 1% level starts at $386 thousand something and that the average is only $1.15 million. IIRC. While that is great riches to someone like me, it wouldn't just casually buy you seven houses and three yachts as you were claiming. It doesn't seem like enough to class them as a wealthy class who should be taxed to the bone to support everybody else, that is, if there is any real desire to promote freedom in this nation so that there CAN be a class of people who have the ability or the good fortune to make a lot of money without being punished for it.
To me it does look more like what the Right says the Left is about: envy of the rich rather than any real concern for the poor. You can counter that with the Left's view that the Right is fueled by greed, but both envy and greed are sins, one side isn't more righteous than the other if those terms are right at all. I think most wealth is earned by upright people myself, not greedy hoarders at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by JonF, posted 08-30-2018 12:15 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by JonF, posted 08-30-2018 2:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 282 by jar, posted 08-30-2018 3:02 PM Faith has replied
 Message 283 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-30-2018 3:10 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 284 of 353 (838928)
08-30-2018 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by JonF
08-30-2018 2:53 PM


Re: Socialism
Most liberals truly do believe in giving a helping hand to those in need.
Which would be fine if they didn't think other people should pay for it.
And most conservatives ALSO truly do believe in giving a helping hand to those in need, and they show it with their actual giving which is always a lot more than the Left gives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by JonF, posted 08-30-2018 2:53 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 285 of 353 (838929)
08-30-2018 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by AnswersInGenitals
08-30-2018 3:10 PM


Re: Income =/= wealth!!!
It's true I have little knowledge of things economic, but I have no motive for not linking something or other except it's work once I've left the site behind, and I don't grasp it all anyway. I'm happy to be educated about these things but so far the difference doesn't really make a difference to me. A huge income is wealth by most ordinary thinking, but feel free to make whatever relevant points you'd like to make, though most of what you already said went over my head as it is.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 287 of 353 (838931)
08-30-2018 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by jar
08-30-2018 3:02 PM


Re: Socialism
I get the impression of envy from the way you all talk about the rich as if they had no right to be rich and try to protect their wealth. .The way people talk about the wealthy is very grabby-greedy-disdainful-envious etc.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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