Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

Not only that, China will be fully in charge of global affairs by then, social security will be bankrupt as will the US economy, and the weapons of mass destruction will all be in the nation with the most fundamentalist populists....

What would most likely really happen if you sold everything you own to give it to the poor is that you'd be homeless and have to apply for welfare and they might turn you down when they heard the reason for your poverty. AND you wouldn't be saved. No, I am not contradicting Jesus, you simply don't understand how to read the Bible. He said that in a particular circumstance to a young man He knew was too attached to his wealth, to test him. He was also too attached to his supposed righteousness in obeying the law. It was NOT a principle for all believers or we'd all be on welfare, having become the poor that need support ourselves, and unable to give as we do to support the many causes we support.Down the centuries there have been occasional believers who have taken that advice for themselves, feeling the Holy Spirit showed them it was for thesmevles, but one I think of immediately became a missionary to a small tribe somewhere, having been called to that. He'd been born into a wealthy family and gave it all up for that calling. But it isn't for all of us, only specific cases like his.

I find it hard to believe that you could say any of that without a twinge of conscience.

This is sad news.My deepest condolences to her family and friends.ABE: or not as the case may seem.?Edited by Larni, : Totally misread the OP.

In fact pretty much everything he said was to specific people under specific circumstances, and so can be ignored.For example, to use this argument ... ... you have to ignore Matthew 6:25 - 34 so goddamn hard.

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25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

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26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

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27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

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28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

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29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

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30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

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31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

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32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek: ) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

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33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

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34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

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Fortunately using your method of interpreting the Bible we know that this, like all the rest of the Sermon on the Mount, applied only to the people who were actually present at that sermon and can be ignored by actual Christians. Lucky break for you guys, huh? Otherwise you'd have to actually have faith in God, and who has time for that?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Seriously, if there were any opportunity to convince the members of EvC who are unbelievers that trusting in Jesus is their necessary step, the best way to open their hearts is with humor...not scripture. They are unimpressed with scripture and usually see the hypocrisy in us anyway....so were it my motive to warn them of the "coming wrath" I would and have chosen humor as a vehicle.And my scriptural support comes from The bottom line, Faith is our character. Our daily character. Not our religion. Not the scriptures. If I am a prejudiced, authoritarian conservative with no empathy for the poor impoverished masses, no amount of scripture will gain my church any fans. (and by church I mean the called out ones in general)IF there is such an event as a RAPTURE, unbelievers will have to receive you or I or jaywill or Iano or etc etdc etc....and in so doing will receive the Spirit which we believe works in us.Quite honestly, I am a poor spokesman for selling trust in Jesus. Hopefully by being honest and funny, I can get people to at least think that I'm not such a bad guy---and by extension, according to Matthew 10:40, they will receive Jesus that way.Just so everyone knows, I am not trying to convert anyone...but I am not disrespecting the God of Christian Apologetics either. Would you not agree that God has a sense of humor?

I tought it was easier for a camel to go trough the eye of a needle then a rich man to get to haven.

I said no such thing. The Sermon on the Mount is for all of us.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I'm talking about ordinary Christians, not the wealthy.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

OK, in that case you are specifically commanded not to consider how poor you would be if you gave everything to the poor, and the problems this would cause, but to trust in God instead.

The text does not say that. You're making it up.The rich man asked what he had to do to be saved. Jesus told him to sell what he had and give to the poor. There is no indication that anything else would save him. We'd all be giving according to our ability and receiving according to our need.

I am more impressed by scripture than you are. I don't have to embellish it to make it more impressive, like you do.

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Matthew 6:28-29 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

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Edited by ringo, : Fixed attribution.

Dont mistake Marxism for Christianity. Socialism would work if people were basically good....but your naive utopian worldview that we all should look out for the poor while not caring about having the rich join our ideals is too far left even for me...and I'm farther left than Faith is.And this whole idea of justifying your secular governmental beliefs with what Jesus says...whom you don't believe is more than a character in a book, by the way....irritates me because of several reasons. (jar too)

You don't believe that humans need God...that we have the responsibility to fix/change the world and can, in fact, do it. I refuse to slog in the trenches forever with the poor impoverished masses simply for some secular utopian ideal which is more unrealistic than what the apologists claim.

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It is disingenuous to use the words of Jesus as fodder for your secular utopian idealism when reality suggests that it is evil in this world and we are not all called to give up all that we have for a said ideal. In other words, Jesus message won't work (for me) without there being the promise of God/ Jesus to help us once we have suffered. I can not very well give according to my ability if my ability is squashed. And I do not consider some socialist utopian ideal to be noble in and of itself if the 2% get to hard their stash while thus making me suffer to relieve myself of mine. Perhaps I wouldn't make the cut in a rapture even if it happened...I'll admit I don't let go of my rights and my earned fruits of my labor willingly and easily....

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Your message also carries no weight due to this:

The rich man asked what he had to do to be saved. Jesus told him to sell what he had and give to the poor. There is no indication that anything else would save him.

And yet your message is delivered by a messenger who not only does not believe in salvation but does not believe in Jesus. Secular Humanism is a false counterfeit of religion.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

It's Jesus' ideal. As I've said repeatedly, I don't believe we can COUNT on your God. That is evidenced by the fact that the problems still exist. And you have the gall to argue against the solutions. It is downright DISHONEST of you to claim to believe in Jesus when you reject His message. Think that through. OF COURSE you can give according to your ability, no matter what your ability is. You continue to make the mistake of putting the messenger ahead of the message. You worship the envelope and throw the letter away.In fact, I believe in Jesus more than you do because I believe in the message. You have it backwards. Religion is a counterfeit of humanism.