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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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The difference between me and you is that I admit that I could be deceived. You think you could never be deceived.
I mentioned that I could be wrong. I mentioned also that the reflectors against which we are being told lasers are bouncing, is a good argument for that piece of equipment being there somehow. (Yet the only thing they say tells me it came back is a beep on a computer and a spike seen on a graph). You can't answer a simple question about the "fantasy" of hearing tools clank in a space vacuum. The sounds are not heard on the ISS. Your not watching the video I count as probably cowardice to have your conceptions challenged. You can act uppity and condescending. But if answering the problem is beneath you I'm not impressed. The evidence looks to some like the footage is staged in an expensive government studio. SOUNDS in outer space? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJ3EDfdvhM We don't hear drills or hammers in the footage of the International Space Station. Why on Apollo 16 moon work but not in astronauts working on the ISS? And this has nothing to do with my Christian faith.I doubt that many who are doubtful of moon landing footage are all held together because of biblical faith. I'm not antiscience nor anti-real history. I just want to know the truth.A Cold War propaganda effort to avoid war with the Soviets is a plausible rationale for staging a high tech victory over US enemies. I saw it as a kid and felt just as proud as any other American, and comforted too. Latter I questioned what I saw and what I revisit to see again and again. At present I believe that if we did go to the moon we also produced some footage as a PLAN B in case it failed. US is not like Russia. We're not about to show people dying on the surface of the moon to American tax payers and to the world at large. So I don't apologize for some skepticism. You function by bigotry and prejudice. So YOU need to make it to be a Bible believing issue. And I have already cautioned readers that I could be incorrect about the moon walks. Now, since you're so smart, just explain sounds of tools clanking and being thrown around in the footage of Apollo (I think it was 16). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5O43FkzYZc Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jaywill writes: The difference between me and you is that I admit that I could be deceived. You think you could never be deceived. Bullshit jaywill, You really need to stop saying stupid stuff. I KNOW I can be deceived and that the most likely source of deception is myself and so look for actual evidence and reality. And all you stupid space comments are also still simply stupid comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic and are just more evidence of your carny midway spiel. Won't work. The FACT is the mirrors exist, exist where they should be, first appeared when the flight they were scheduled to be on happened. Done deal. Only fools and con men question the fact mankind went to the moon.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I KNOW I can be deceived and that the most likely source of deception is myself and so look for actual evidence and reality. Is there any chance that reality itself could be deceptive? I suppose you will retort that we could never know.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Your own perception (or intuition) of reality can certainly be deceptive. That's why human thought needs to be collaborative. Is there any chance that reality itself could be deceptive?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I agree that we need to collaborate. My question is why must it be skeptically evidence-based? If I walk into a community of believers, and they all confirm the same message, must it be wrong without concrete evidence? Granted I must be wary of drinking any kool-aid, but if they all seem to gain strength from the belief, and if they are otherwise rationally minded people, why must I shun them in favor of the gang of secular humanists at the park or at the library? Surely there is room in this world for atheists who are skeptical of anything or anyone other than humanity itself and evidence-based thinking...but just as surely there is room for faith communities.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You have one community with one message but across the street there's another community with a different message. How can you evaluate the different messages?
If I walk into a community of believers, and they all confirm the same message, must it be wrong without concrete evidence? Phat writes:
If they were rationally-minded people, why would they reject concrete evidence? ... if they are otherwise rationally minded people....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I evaluate the messengers and not simply the messages. If one community feeds me, talks openly and honestly with me, and does not attempt to indoctrinate me (at least obviously) then I will align with them. I think it all boils down to which people one feels most comfortable with. Jesus never hung out with Temple folk. He hung with the street people kinda like you do. You have one community with one message but across the street there's another community with a different message. How can you evaluate the different messages?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But the Messenger is the same. It's only the interpretation of the message that differs. I evaluate the messengers and not simply the messages. That's why it's so foolish to put your faith in the messenger. You're really just listening to what you want to hear. You're accepting the interpretation that you're comfortable with. What you should be doing is comparing the message with reality and then evaluating the interpretations based on how well they correspond to reality.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Actually, you have a good point. I'll have to ponder this one a bit.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Is there any chance that reality itself could be deceptive? What does that even mean? And you do understand that even reality should get tested? That is what Science and Rationality are based on.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: Shhhhhhhh! Now don't say anything about the sounds recorded on the moon. Maybe they'll just forget about it. (Apollo 12, 15) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJ3EDfdvhM Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
And this has nothing to do with my Christian faith. I doubt that many who are doubtful of moon landing footage are all held together because of biblical faith. Okay, so then why did you bring it up on a thread entitled "Christianity and the End Times?" "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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I watched the video Apollo 16 and end up thinking the crucial point is where the microphone was. That is, it must be in the spacesuit somehow, right? Since he's talking to someone or hearing from someone? If that's the case the mechanical sounds could be transmitted through the spacesuit and not through the "atmosphere" anyway. Or something like that. Not that I know exactly how that would work, just that if the microphone isn't outside then the sound isn't being transmitted to it across the vacuum/"atmosphere"/space anyway.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
quote: Etc etc etc Moon landing conspiracy theories - Wikipedia Religious nutters will believe anything.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I've read through your post three or four times and fail to see anything in it that pertains to recording sounds on the moon. What am I missing?
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