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Author Topic:   Is Tithing an ancient Israelite law ALONE or is it a post-Easter law too?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 7 of 54 (840216)
09-25-2018 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
09-24-2018 10:46 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Faith writes:

... a part of the Bible that you feel you can trust to tell you truth about the nature of God....


The parts that we can trust are the parts that coincide with reality - for example, the parts that tell us to take care of each other. We know from reality that that makes life better.

Most of the "nitpicking" that's done around here is to show that the Bible is not one monolithic themed work. The fact that you have to make up non-Biblical garbage like "the Fall" and "original sin" to create the illusion of a theme does more damage to your cause than the nitpicking. (Ask Richard Nixon; the cover-up gets you into more trouble than the crime.)


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 09-24-2018 10:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-25-2018 4:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 16 of 54 (840246)
09-26-2018 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
09-25-2018 4:39 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

We didn't make it up though. It has been part of dogma for centuries.


Don't be disingenuous. It doesn't matter whether it was made up centuries ago or yesterday. It was made up. It isn't in the Bible.

Phat writes:

What makes the vast body of apologists, preachers, teachers, and laymen willfully deluded?


Don't believe what Faith says about the vast majority of theologians that agree with her. The agreement is far from complete. And many of them wouldn't be "True Christians" anyway by Faith's standards. She's inclusive when she wants to inflate the numbers but very exclusive when it comes to specific issues.

Phat writes:

Are they in fact deluded or is it that you don't have an understanding of the necessity to know the messenger behind the basic message?


There is no necessity to know the messenger. In real life, you know that. You don't keep every envellope that comes in the mail, do you? You know that it's only the message that matters, so why do you keep bringing up that nonsense?

Phat writes:

Why is it that you avoid the leap of faith by continually asking how this is done?


Why don't you take a leap of faith instead of understanding how a bridge works?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-25-2018 4:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:09 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 22 of 54 (840253)
09-26-2018 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
09-26-2018 12:09 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

You keep insisting that messengers are like envelopes.


You've never shown any difference.

Phat writes:

You want me to go do a bunch of work when I don't even know whom I'm working for.


Nonsense. You know exactly who the work is for.

Phat writes:

I want to work for someone with integrity and wisdom.


The "integrity and wisdom" is made up. From past performance, we know that your God is a mass murderer. And the doctrines that you attribute to him are utterly, utterly stupid. "Kill my son and we'll call it even," is so infernally stupid that you should throw up when you claim to believe it. The drunk asking for spare change has far more integrity and wisdom than your God.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:42 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 25 of 54 (840261)
09-26-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
09-26-2018 12:42 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

As I told jar, the socialists will never make a better world by forcingus to support all of us.


You're wrong. They already have.

Phat writes:

Only God can change the human heart.


Wrong again. THAT has been demonstrated not to work. Look at the number of Christians in prison, for example.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 12:42 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:03 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 28 of 54 (840268)
09-26-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:03 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
phat writes:

look at the number of any group in prison...aside from perhaps Orthodox Jews, they are all represented numerically.


Better check your facts. But the point is that if God changes hearts, as you claim, there should be disproportionately fewer Christians in prison. If He was any good at it, there should be none at all.

Conclusion: "God changes hearts" is an empty claim.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:19 PM ringo has responded
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 1:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 30 of 54 (840272)
09-26-2018 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:19 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

The ones who have unregenerate hearts likely ignored the messenger and made up their own message.


That doesn't even make sense. It's the one's who put importance on the messenger who are making up their own message.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:28 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 34 of 54 (840278)
09-26-2018 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
09-26-2018 1:23 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Faith writes:

And how do you know how many Christians there are anyway? Is it what they checked off on a form?


Trying to bring up the No True Christian argument again?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 1:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 2:06 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 35 of 54 (840279)
09-26-2018 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:28 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

The jury is still out.


No it isn't. It's well-documented right on this forum that your crowd is making up the message - an ad hoc message and an inconsistent message.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:28 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:43 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 37 of 54 (840282)
09-26-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:43 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

...I've just added that the messenger is an integral part of it.


But you know he isn't. In real life you would never make such a silly claim.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:50 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 39 of 54 (840285)
09-26-2018 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
09-26-2018 1:50 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

So are you basically accusing me of lying to myself and others by insisting that the messenger is alive and important?


Yes.

Phat writes:

That I really deep down agree with you that there is no evidence of a messenger?


No. It has nothing to do with evidence of a messenger. I said that in real life you know that the messenger is not important. You don't keep the envellopes and throw out the letters. You don't consult the mailman about what's in the letters. You know that would be silly.

Phat writes:

If I am lying I am unaware of it.


When we lie to ourselves, we usually are unaware of it. How else could we get away with it. But when somebody else points out to us that the lie is a lie, there's little excuse for clinging to the lie.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 1:50 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 42 of 54 (840291)
09-26-2018 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Faith
09-26-2018 2:06 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Faith writes:

You were talking about God's changing hearts, giving as an example of unchanged hearts all the "Christians" in prison.


And you were claiming that the ones whose hearts were clearly not changed were not true Christians, were you not? Whereas the logical conclusion is that there's something wrong with the notion of God changing hearts.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 2:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 2:41 PM ringo has responded
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 2:43 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 46 of 54 (840302)
09-26-2018 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
09-26-2018 2:41 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Faith writes:

God changes BELIEVERS' hearts. What else could that mean?


That's a good question. What the hell does it mean? If God changes hearts, such as yours, why are you still such an angry hateful harpy?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 2:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19303
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 47 of 54 (840303)
09-26-2018 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
09-26-2018 2:43 PM


Re: What LNA Believes (about religions). I believe we should have a chance to "know God"
Phat writes:

She basically means that a BELIEVER allows their heart to be changed whereas an unbeliever sees no need to fix what ain't broke..


And what I mean is why, oh why, for the zillionth time, why is there no sign of a change? Why are Christians not better people than non-Christians?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 2:43 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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