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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 346 of 1677 (840355)
09-27-2018 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by ringo
09-27-2018 3:57 PM


Re: Consequences
After a bit of googling, I found that my true enemy is communism.
Wiki writes:

Socialism is an economic system while communism is both an economic and political system. ... Socialists can own personal properties while communists can not. 5. Socialism allows capitalism to exist in its midst while communism seeks to get rid of capitalism.

If you favor communism, we have beef.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 3:57 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:12 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18131
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 347 of 1677 (840356)
09-27-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Phat
09-27-2018 4:05 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:

I found that my true enemy is communism.


Your true enemy is capitalism. It's in your own back yard.

Speaking of rubes and con-men, the capitalists have conned you into being a proponent of the system that exploits you. You're like the poor white Southerners who supported slavery despite getting no benefit from it.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:24 PM ringo has responded
 Message 358 by ramoss, posted 09-28-2018 4:04 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 348 of 1677 (840359)
09-27-2018 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by ringo
09-27-2018 4:12 PM


Re: Consequences
Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off? That sounds contrived. And all I care about is whether I would be better off. If the majority of the poor are better off and im worse off, its a losing situation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:37 PM Phat has responded
 Message 351 by jar, posted 09-27-2018 5:22 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18131
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 349 of 1677 (840360)
09-27-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Phat
09-27-2018 4:24 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:

Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off?


Do you read anything I write at all? Did I say that? Why do you keep bringing up communism anyway? I haven't mentioned it.

Phat writes:

And all I care about is whether I would be better off.


I have told you before that you'd be better off under a more socialist system. One obvious example is that you'd have fewer worries about the cost of healthcare.

Phat writes:

If the majority of the poor are better off and im worse off, its a losing situation.


That's the lie that the capitalists are telling you. They've got you scape-goating the poor.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:24 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 5:04 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 350 of 1677 (840361)
09-27-2018 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by ringo
09-27-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Consequences
I read this article:
Can Socialism Work In America? and it was a well thought out piece, The author concludes:
In theory, pure socialism sounds like an ideal system in which no one would exploit another person and everyone would be equal. However, this system has been tried out in other countries, such as the former USSR, and has been discarded due to its impracticalities. It seems that while everyone was equal in practice, there was still a hierarchy with politicians and their cronies at the top, leading to disparities between people, and there were a lot of shortages of even essential items.

While American capitalism has not resulted in an equal distribution of wealth, anyone is free to aspire to something better and better act in her own best interests. Rather than looking to socialism, a better way to deal with market distortions is to have the government play a larger role and creating impediments so that businesses don’t take on large risks and only reap the rewards, while the government backstops them if things don’t work out.

Capitalism has led to occasional economic distress and distortions. While it is not a perfect system, compared with pure socialism, it seems it is the lesser of two evils. Thus, it seems a capitalistic system, with some socialist touches, might be what is best for the US.

It seems to make sense.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 6:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32523
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 351 of 1677 (840362)
09-27-2018 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Phat
09-27-2018 4:24 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:

Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off?

Do you know what Communism is or are you simply dealing with yet another misconception of your own making?

Do you think an employee owned company is evil?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:24 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 3:39 AM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18131
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 352 of 1677 (840363)
09-27-2018 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Phat
09-27-2018 5:04 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:

It seems to make sense.


Another strawman. Nobody said anything about "pure socialism".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 5:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 353 of 1677 (840364)
09-27-2018 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Phat
09-27-2018 3:40 PM


Re: Consequences
Hmmm, he "rhymes wih bee" key on my keyboard seems o have sopped working. I waned o reply, bu i will have o wai.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 3:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 354 of 1677 (840375)
09-28-2018 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by jar
09-27-2018 5:22 PM


Re: Consequences
jar writes:

Do you think an employee-owned company is evil?

No, as long as we all earn a fair profit. we should get to keep our money once we are paid, though. What do you think?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by jar, posted 09-27-2018 5:22 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 5:46 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32523
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 355 of 1677 (840376)
09-28-2018 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by Phat
09-28-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Consequences
Do you think that if you are faced with debts far beyond your ability to repay that it is reasonable for society to forgive those debts and remove your obligation to repay beyond what is possible?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 3:39 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 9:39 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 356 of 1677 (840379)
09-28-2018 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Phat
09-27-2018 3:40 PM


Re: Consequences
Replying from my development machine.

Phat writes:

My assumption is that I am decent by Grace anyway.

This conceit is similar to Faith's, the big difference being that you are actually decent by all evidence we see here. You actually care about people. That is the way you are made. It is who you are. It has nothing to do with Grace or some magic person in the sky.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 3:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 357 of 1677 (840381)
09-28-2018 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 355 by jar
09-28-2018 5:46 AM


Re: Consequences
As you know, I was faced with bankruptcy in 2008. I did negotiate a deal with the court where I repaid an agreed upon amount which was not all that I would have owed. Had I not had that option, I would have been basically indebted for life and would not have been able to finance my home which I now live in nor save anything for my needs as I grow older.

Was it fair? Yes and no. After all, I was responsible for the situation I had gotten myself in. Strict Capitalists would never have given an inch. I have to thank limited socialism for giving me a second chance at a sound financial future. So should Donald Trump. He too was bankrupt at one time.

I remember that you advised me to pay it all back...as a responsibility to society, but that would have been virtually impossible. I did learn my lesson and have not been in any debt since.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 5:46 AM jar has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3141
Joined: 08-11-2004


(3)
Message 358 of 1677 (840394)
09-28-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by ringo
09-27-2018 4:12 PM


Re: Consequences
No, the true enemy is the oligarchy, where , no matter what the economic principle, or the political system, the wealth and power gets concentrated to the very few, and a substance amount of people live in poverty. That can happen under socialism, that can happen under capitalism, that can happen under democracy, and that can happen under communism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 4:55 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13946
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 359 of 1677 (840396)
09-28-2018 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by ramoss
09-28-2018 4:04 PM


Oligarchy and malarkey
perhaps under today's capitalism, the middle class see themselves aligned with the oligarchy in the hopes of attaining a better position economically in life. Under socialism, that same middle class, as I understand it, would eventually blend in with the masses below them...leaving the small oligarchy at the top to contend with.

ringo may claim that the "lie" that I believe is that my "cushy" life would get worse under socialism, whereas he thinks it would improve...somehow.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by ramoss, posted 09-28-2018 4:04 PM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by ringo, posted 09-28-2018 4:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 361 by Tangle, posted 09-28-2018 6:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 362 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:44 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 363 by ringo, posted 09-29-2018 11:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18131
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 360 of 1677 (840397)
09-28-2018 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
09-28-2018 4:55 PM


Re: Oligarchy and malarkey
Phat writes:

Under socialism, that same middle class, as I understand it, would eventually blend in with the masses below them...leaving the small oligarchy at the top to contend with.


Why would it not be in your interest to unite against the oligarchy?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 4:55 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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