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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 335 of 1677 (840324)
09-26-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by ringo
09-26-2018 5:20 PM


Consequences
OK, but you will get taken advantage of many times.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 5:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 5:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 337 of 1677 (840326)
09-26-2018 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by ringo
09-26-2018 5:28 PM


Re: Consequences
I suppose that's between Him and me.
I dont use it as an excuse to do nothing, but I feel I have a right to decide how my money will be spent. Perhaps I am wrong...but the evidence shows that we have no supreme ruler to direct things---all we have is each other. And I won't allow the law to determine that I must give everything I have. Again, socialism without trusted authority is a risky investment. If I work hard for my money---and I do---I'm not simply going to obey a social law that says I MUST help the masses indiscriminately. If I believe that Jesus tells me to help someone I will help them no matter what I personally think of them, but I'm not going to adopt a principle...Matthew 25...and combine it with secular socialist ideals and claim that mandatory sharing will lead to utopia on earth. Reality does not support that.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 5:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 09-26-2018 5:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 339 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 5:47 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 340 of 1677 (840333)
09-27-2018 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by ringo
09-26-2018 5:47 PM


Re: Consequences
If there was such a law, you certainly would allow it.
No. I would fight and defy it.
I promise you nothing but blood, sweat, toil and tears.
I can't promise that I will keep up.A life with only duties and no rewards is hardly worth the sacrifice.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by ringo, posted 09-26-2018 5:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 11:40 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 342 of 1677 (840351)
09-27-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by ringo
09-27-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Consequences
But of course socialist/Christian principles do have material rewards as well. You get help when you need it too.
The two are not synonymous. Altruistic socialists will never find heaven on their own nor will they join together and sing Kum Ba Yah and make the world a paradise without the help of the messenger. We need Jesus. The fact that you do not see this does not negate its reality. But of course, you will say that He has not nor likely will show up to help us and so we have to do it on our own.
And I say that History shows me that socialism in extreme form is not to be trusted any more than any other human form of government. If there ever is a law requiring me to give all that I have to the state, I would fight it. Hopefully successfully before it even became a law. If I help my fellow humans, I want to do it willfully and cheerfully. If you claim that humans need to be forced in order to do it successfully, you are exposing the main flaw in socialism---that society creates its own authoritarian structure for keeping social order. Humans are flawed. Period. We need freedom from imposition from other humans. We need the right to keep our stuff. Having a common pot won't work....someone somewhere will steal from that common pot.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 3:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 343 of 1677 (840352)
09-27-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by ringo
09-27-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Consequences
Doesn't being a decent human being appeal to you at all?
My assumption is that I am decent by Grace anyway. I am not like a Jehovahs Witness that has to put in work in order to earn the right for salvation. If God does not like me as I am, He most certainly wouldn't like a begrudging servant who has to work for Him day and night. You can make a case for Jesus commanding us to do this or that (even though you dont believe in Jesus) and then relabel your socialism as Christian/Socialism, but I see through the charade. You want a secular human society that sees the need for everyone to contribute. Mandatory contribution! That is what I fight against.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 3:57 PM Phat has replied
 Message 353 by Percy, posted 09-27-2018 7:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 356 by Percy, posted 09-28-2018 9:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 346 of 1677 (840355)
09-27-2018 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by ringo
09-27-2018 3:57 PM


Re: Consequences
After a bit of googling, I found that my true enemy is communism.
Wiki writes:
Socialism is an economic system while communism is both an economic and political system. ... Socialists can own personal properties while communists can not. 5. Socialism allows capitalism to exist in its midst while communism seeks to get rid of capitalism.
If you favor communism, we have beef.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 3:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 348 of 1677 (840359)
09-27-2018 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by ringo
09-27-2018 4:12 PM


Re: Consequences
Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off? That sounds contrived. And all I care about is whether I would be better off. If the majority of the poor are better off and im worse off, its a losing situation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:37 PM Phat has replied
 Message 351 by jar, posted 09-27-2018 5:22 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 350 of 1677 (840361)
09-27-2018 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by ringo
09-27-2018 4:37 PM


Re: Consequences
I read this article:
Can Socialism Work In America? and it was a well thought out piece, The author concludes:
In theory, pure socialism sounds like an ideal system in which no one would exploit another person and everyone would be equal. However, this system has been tried out in other countries, such as the former USSR, and has been discarded due to its impracticalities. It seems that while everyone was equal in practice, there was still a hierarchy with politicians and their cronies at the top, leading to disparities between people, and there were a lot of shortages of even essential items.
While American capitalism has not resulted in an equal distribution of wealth, anyone is free to aspire to something better and better act in her own best interests. Rather than looking to socialism, a better way to deal with market distortions is to have the government play a larger role and creating impediments so that businesses don’t take on large risks and only reap the rewards, while the government backstops them if things don’t work out.
Capitalism has led to occasional economic distress and distortions. While it is not a perfect system, compared with pure socialism, it seems it is the lesser of two evils. Thus, it seems a capitalistic system, with some socialist touches, might be what is best for the US.
It seems to make sense.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 4:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by ringo, posted 09-27-2018 6:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 354 of 1677 (840375)
09-28-2018 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by jar
09-27-2018 5:22 PM


Re: Consequences
jar writes:
Do you think an employee-owned company is evil?
No, as long as we all earn a fair profit. we should get to keep our money once we are paid, though. What do you think?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by jar, posted 09-27-2018 5:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 5:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 357 of 1677 (840381)
09-28-2018 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 355 by jar
09-28-2018 5:46 AM


Re: Consequences
As you know, I was faced with bankruptcy in 2008. I did negotiate a deal with the court where I repaid an agreed upon amount which was not all that I would have owed. Had I not had that option, I would have been basically indebted for life and would not have been able to finance my home which I now live in nor save anything for my needs as I grow older.
Was it fair? Yes and no. After all, I was responsible for the situation I had gotten myself in. Strict Capitalists would never have given an inch. I have to thank limited socialism for giving me a second chance at a sound financial future. So should Donald Trump. He too was bankrupt at one time.
I remember that you advised me to pay it all back...as a responsibility to society, but that would have been virtually impossible. I did learn my lesson and have not been in any debt since.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 5:46 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 359 of 1677 (840396)
09-28-2018 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by ramoss
09-28-2018 4:04 PM


Oligarchy and malarkey
perhaps under today's capitalism, the middle class see themselves aligned with the oligarchy in the hopes of attaining a better position economically in life. Under socialism, that same middle class, as I understand it, would eventually blend in with the masses below them...leaving the small oligarchy at the top to contend with.
ringo may claim that the "lie" that I believe is that my "cushy" life would get worse under socialism, whereas he thinks it would improve...somehow.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by ramoss, posted 09-28-2018 4:04 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by ringo, posted 09-28-2018 4:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 361 by Tangle, posted 09-28-2018 6:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 362 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 363 by ringo, posted 09-29-2018 11:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 370 of 1677 (840773)
10-04-2018 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by Faith
10-04-2018 4:19 AM


Journalism and Moral Relativism
I read that preview. Prodigal Press: Confronting the Anti-Christian Bias of the American News Media (Revised and Updated Edition)
Caffeine does make a point:
Caffeine writes:
...when people say the US was never a Christian nation I think they're talking about the constitutional basis of the state. This is not the same as the question of how religious the society was. That Western society was a lot more Christian in the past is hardly a secret. This applies to US society in particular, where the decline in religious belief is more recent and slower than it has been in most of the industrialized world.
The journalists were biased towards a Christian worldview whereas today journalists are biased towards a secular worldview. Granted journalism by definition *should* be objective, but this book makes a case that there is really no such thing as absolute objectivity. The authors feel that we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and I can see their point.
The original book is available online here. The authors note in Chapter 3
quote:
Coverage of Sensation and Disaster:
The Gaining and Keeping of Audiences

The Oxford English Dictionary defines "sensation" as "a condition of excited feeling produced in a community by some occurrence; a strong impression produced in an audience or body of spectators." Sensationalism, then, is the attempt in works of literature or art to produce such responses. One example given of usage, from 1863, is a comment on "the cheap publications which supply sensation for the millions in penny and halfpenny numbers." Sensational stories tend to emphasize death and destruction.
If sensationalism, properly defined, is an attempt to produce excited feelings and strong impressions, often through tales of trouble and disaster, then the inspired authors of the Bible were some of the prime early users of sensationalism. Moses quoted the first news report, Lamech's announcement in chapter 4 of Genesis that he "killed a man for wounding me." Later in Genesis come the original tales of sodomy, leading to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, followed immediately by the incest of Lot and his daughters (Genesis 19).
Many more sensational events fill the pages of Genesis and the four following books of Moses. That part of the Bible culminates in the blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience found in chapter 28 of Deuteronomy. The culmination of the curses is especially vivid, with Israelites told that unfaithfulness will lead to terrible war and starvation in which "you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you....
{...)Christians tended to object not to all sensationalism, but to the kind which preached that sin was not always wrong. (...)Modem sensationalism, in short, proclaims that there is no king in Israel, so every man is right in doing what he wishes, in being his own oracle. The troubles of others are spectator sport. (...)The type of sensationalism with which we in the twentieth century are most familiar shows the world groaning in sin, yet provides no explanation of why we have such troubles and what we can do about them. The lack of context is not surprising since in the twentieth century many writers use their pens in an attempt to ink out God. But a Christian sensationalism could win readers while glorifying God.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 10-04-2018 4:19 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2018 11:00 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 372 of 1677 (840776)
10-04-2018 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by PaulK
10-04-2018 11:00 AM


Re: Journalism and Moral Relativism
Their basic point is that even so-called objective journalism promotes something.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2018 11:00 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2018 11:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 398 of 1677 (840888)
10-05-2018 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Faith
10-05-2018 8:54 AM


Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
Before commenting, I would like to point out that the original intent of this topic was to announce Faith's rapture from the planet. This did not happen---at least not yet but the topic has morphed into the demise of journalism and global acknowledgment of the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what that event meant in a historical context for our culture and values today...in 2018.
PaulK seems to argue that the event (alleged event, according to some) was not that influential or notable in Global History. I would agree with Faith that the Christian beliefs of early journalism did attempt to sway culture into an acknowledgment of the importance of a resurrected Christ and the subsequent impact upon human purpose and emphasis.
Granted Christianity was only dominant in the West, but the West drove much of the power of the expansion of ideas into the media-at-large while the rest of the world played catchup--Islam being a notable exception. Paul may well argue that secular objectivity should be the benchmark and that the press simply drifted more towards neutral objectivity, but the authors, and Faith---will claim that there is no such thing as neutral objectivity and that by promoting secularism and acceptance of social mores once considered taboo, the press has been influencing popular culture in some arguably destructive ways since the demise of the pro Christian bias.
Personally, I think that if this is to change, the people themselves need to change---and wake up to reality. Of course many would argue that a focus on Christian worldviews is not realistic while others would argue that this is, in fact, the root of the problem.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Faith, posted 10-05-2018 8:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by Faith, posted 10-05-2018 10:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 404 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:23 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 405 of 1677 (840917)
10-05-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by ringo
10-05-2018 12:23 PM


Re: Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
huh? whats that?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:50 PM Phat has replied

  
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