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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 344 of 1677 (840353)
09-27-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Phat
09-27-2018 3:28 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:
We need Jesus.
You keep repeating that but you have never given us any reason to think it's true.
Phat writes:
The fact that you do not see this does not negate its reality.
The fact that it isn't real negates its reality. If you think it's real, demonstrate it.
Phat writes:
And I say that History shows me that socialism in extreme form is not to be trusted any more than any other human form of government.
Who said anything about an extreme form? You're arguing against a strawman.
Phat writes:
If I help my fellow humans, I want to do it willfully and cheerfully.
The problem is that you don't want to help them at all. You keep making excuses not to.
Phat writes:
If you claim that humans need to be forced in order to do it successfully....
I don't make any such claim. Exactly the opposite. I keep telling you that as a social species, it comes naturally to us.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 3:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 345 of 1677 (840354)
09-27-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Phat
09-27-2018 3:40 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:
Mandatory contribution!
Stop lying.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 3:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 347 of 1677 (840356)
09-27-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Phat
09-27-2018 4:05 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:
I found that my true enemy is communism.
Your true enemy is capitalism. It's in your own back yard.
Speaking of rubes and con-men, the capitalists have conned you into being a proponent of the system that exploits you. You're like the poor white Southerners who supported slavery despite getting no benefit from it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:24 PM ringo has replied
 Message 358 by ramoss, posted 09-28-2018 4:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 349 of 1677 (840360)
09-27-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Phat
09-27-2018 4:24 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:
Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off?
Do you read anything I write at all? Did I say that? Why do you keep bringing up communism anyway? I haven't mentioned it.
Phat writes:
And all I care about is whether I would be better off.
I have told you before that you'd be better off under a more socialist system. One obvious example is that you'd have fewer worries about the cost of healthcare.
Phat writes:
If the majority of the poor are better off and im worse off, its a losing situation.
That's the lie that the capitalists are telling you. They've got you scape-goating the poor.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 4:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 5:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 352 of 1677 (840363)
09-27-2018 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Phat
09-27-2018 5:04 PM


Re: Consequences
Phat writes:
It seems to make sense.
Another strawman. Nobody said anything about "pure socialism".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Phat, posted 09-27-2018 5:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 360 of 1677 (840397)
09-28-2018 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
09-28-2018 4:55 PM


Re: Oligarchy and malarkey
Phat writes:
Under socialism, that same middle class, as I understand it, would eventually blend in with the masses below them...leaving the small oligarchy at the top to contend with.
Why would it not be in your interest to unite against the oligarchy?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 4:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 363 of 1677 (840418)
09-29-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
09-28-2018 4:55 PM


Re: Oligarchy and malarkey
Phat writes:
ringo may claim that the "lie" that I believe is that my "cushy" life would get worse under socialism, whereas he thinks it would improve...somehow.
Specifically, what do you think would get worse?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 4:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 404 of 1677 (840916)
10-05-2018 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
10-05-2018 9:24 AM


Re: Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
Phat writes:
Personally, I think that if this is to change, the people themselves need to change---and wake up to reality.
You broke my iron meter.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 9:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 12:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 406 of 1677 (840918)
10-05-2018 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by Phat
10-05-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
Phat writes:
huh? whats that?
You suggesting that people should wake up to reality. You don't see the irony?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 12:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 410 of 1677 (840923)
10-05-2018 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Phat
10-05-2018 1:04 PM


Re: Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
Phat writes:
reality is not always as it appears.
How else do you know what's real?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 1:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 1:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 412 of 1677 (840926)
10-05-2018 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Phat
10-05-2018 1:22 PM


Re: Is Western Culture In Decline Or Renaissance?
Phat writes:
intuition and subjective experience
Nope. No good. Your intuition and subjective experience produce a different god than the Muslims and the Aztecs. How can they all be real?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 1:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by GDR, posted 10-05-2018 5:42 PM ringo has replied
 Message 422 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 6:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 420 of 1677 (840942)
10-05-2018 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by GDR
10-05-2018 5:42 PM


Re: One god or many
GDR writes:
I'd suggest that there is only one god or one creative intelligence and not many gods of human invention or otherwise. The question to be answered in that regard is are we theistic or atheistic.
That's overly simplistic. There are thousands of varieties of theism and every variety believes that all of the other varieties are made up. The only difference between a theist and an atheist is that the theist believes in one more god. Both lack belief in the other thousands.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by GDR, posted 10-05-2018 5:42 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 6:34 PM ringo has replied
 Message 427 by GDR, posted 10-06-2018 2:04 AM ringo has replied
 Message 435 by caffeine, posted 10-06-2018 12:39 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 431 of 1677 (840984)
10-06-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by Phat
10-05-2018 6:34 PM


Re: One god or many
Phat writes:
and I will forever argue that unbelief is not the default option.
But you don't argue it. You only assert it. You might as well assert that the moon is made of green cheese.
Phat writes:
Subjective experience, though potentially falsifiable, is what makes belief in many originate to begin with.
Yes, ignoring reality is what makes belief originate. How is that a good thing?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 6:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 432 of 1677 (840986)
10-06-2018 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by Phat
10-05-2018 6:40 PM


Re: Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Phat writes:
Going back to your gold standard of objective evidence and finding none, you will then loudly crow that there are no gods.
You know that isn't true. Have you ever heard me loudly crow that there are no gods? I've given you every opportunity to show me your god or any other god or Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. With no evidence, and no reason to distinguish on from the other, the logical conclusion is that they are all made up.
Phat writes:
In short---belief leads to inner change if seriously entertained.
And yet, that "inner change" is just one more thing that you can't support with evidence. Why is there often no outward evidence of the change? As Jesus said, the branch that does not produce fruit is thrown into the fire.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Phat, posted 10-05-2018 6:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 433 of 1677 (840987)
10-06-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by GDR
10-06-2018 2:04 AM


Re: One god or many
GDR writes:
Assuming basic theism is correct then religions are simply mankind's attempt to understand that deity and what it should mean to our lives.
But why would you assume that? If the application of theism is made up, why not concede that theism itself is likely made up too? If Moby Dick is made up, isn't Ishmael made up too?
GDR writes:
I base my life on the faith that my understanding of God is at least close enough to the truth to use that teaching as a foundation to base my life on, no matter how imperfectly I do it.
But you can do that without the redundancy of the god concept (Occam's Razor).

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by GDR, posted 10-06-2018 2:04 AM GDR has not replied

  
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