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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You keep repeating that but you have never given us any reason to think it's true.
We need Jesus. Phat writes:
The fact that it isn't real negates its reality. If you think it's real, demonstrate it.
The fact that you do not see this does not negate its reality. Phat writes:
Who said anything about an extreme form? You're arguing against a strawman.
And I say that History shows me that socialism in extreme form is not to be trusted any more than any other human form of government. Phat writes:
The problem is that you don't want to help them at all. You keep making excuses not to.
If I help my fellow humans, I want to do it willfully and cheerfully. Phat writes:
I don't make any such claim. Exactly the opposite. I keep telling you that as a social species, it comes naturally to us. If you claim that humans need to be forced in order to do it successfully....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Stop lying. Mandatory contribution!And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Your true enemy is capitalism. It's in your own back yard. I found that my true enemy is communism. Speaking of rubes and con-men, the capitalists have conned you into being a proponent of the system that exploits you. You're like the poor white Southerners who supported slavery despite getting no benefit from it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Do you read anything I write at all? Did I say that? Why do you keep bringing up communism anyway? I haven't mentioned it.
Are you saying that under communism the US would be better off? Phat writes:
I have told you before that you'd be better off under a more socialist system. One obvious example is that you'd have fewer worries about the cost of healthcare.
And all I care about is whether I would be better off. Phat writes:
That's the lie that the capitalists are telling you. They've got you scape-goating the poor. If the majority of the poor are better off and im worse off, its a losing situation.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Another strawman. Nobody said anything about "pure socialism". It seems to make sense.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Why would it not be in your interest to unite against the oligarchy? Under socialism, that same middle class, as I understand it, would eventually blend in with the masses below them...leaving the small oligarchy at the top to contend with.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Specifically, what do you think would get worse? ringo may claim that the "lie" that I believe is that my "cushy" life would get worse under socialism, whereas he thinks it would improve...somehow.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You broke my iron meter. Personally, I think that if this is to change, the people themselves need to change---and wake up to reality.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You suggesting that people should wake up to reality. You don't see the irony? huh? whats that?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How else do you know what's real? reality is not always as it appears.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nope. No good. Your intuition and subjective experience produce a different god than the Muslims and the Aztecs. How can they all be real? intuition and subjective experienceAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
That's overly simplistic. There are thousands of varieties of theism and every variety believes that all of the other varieties are made up. The only difference between a theist and an atheist is that the theist believes in one more god. Both lack belief in the other thousands. I'd suggest that there is only one god or one creative intelligence and not many gods of human invention or otherwise. The question to be answered in that regard is are we theistic or atheistic.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you don't argue it. You only assert it. You might as well assert that the moon is made of green cheese.
and I will forever argue that unbelief is not the default option. Phat writes:
Yes, ignoring reality is what makes belief originate. How is that a good thing? Subjective experience, though potentially falsifiable, is what makes belief in many originate to begin with.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You know that isn't true. Have you ever heard me loudly crow that there are no gods? I've given you every opportunity to show me your god or any other god or Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. With no evidence, and no reason to distinguish on from the other, the logical conclusion is that they are all made up.
Going back to your gold standard of objective evidence and finding none, you will then loudly crow that there are no gods. Phat writes:
And yet, that "inner change" is just one more thing that you can't support with evidence. Why is there often no outward evidence of the change? As Jesus said, the branch that does not produce fruit is thrown into the fire. In short---belief leads to inner change if seriously entertained.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
But why would you assume that? If the application of theism is made up, why not concede that theism itself is likely made up too? If Moby Dick is made up, isn't Ishmael made up too?
Assuming basic theism is correct then religions are simply mankind's attempt to understand that deity and what it should mean to our lives. GDR writes:
But you can do that without the redundancy of the god concept (Occam's Razor). I base my life on the faith that my understanding of God is at least close enough to the truth to use that teaching as a foundation to base my life on, no matter how imperfectly I do it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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