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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 272 of 1184 (840390)
09-28-2018 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by jar
09-28-2018 11:52 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
jar writes:
But making really stupid arguments like those Percy has posted recently really don't help.
When one has no facts or valid arguments on one's side then one attempts to level the playing field by turning the discussion into a pissing contest. I'm not taking the bait.
The fact of the matter is that research shows that the presence of a gun places the people in the vicinity in greater danger, not less. When you walk out of your home with your arsenal then you become a public menace.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 11:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 6:42 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 273 of 1184 (840392)
09-28-2018 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
09-28-2018 10:45 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Phat writes:
...it only matters what he does and that he lives in a country that has given him the right to be that watchman based on the responsibility and training that he has invested in it.
Much of the country stupidly gives that right to people regardless of the training, competence or quality of their judgment. Self-appointed vigilantes make the country less safe, not more.
Nearly half of people murdered were not at the hands of criminals but of someone they knew.
The law-abiding citizen in the "Before" picture is more likely to find his guns used against family, friends or himself than against any criminal.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 10:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 2:48 AM Percy has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 274 of 1184 (840393)
09-28-2018 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by jar
09-28-2018 11:52 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
jar writes:
Absolutely, and a lot of "law-abiding citizens" don't kill people.
And a lot of criminals don't kill people. The law-abiding-citizens versus criminals argument is bogus.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 11:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 6:44 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 275 of 1184 (840400)
09-28-2018 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
09-28-2018 11:56 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Phat writes:
but you never answered my questions.
why do you carry so much ammunition?
Because I want to.
Phat writes:
do you see yourself as a responsible watchman over society?
There you go trying to pretend you have a clue about someone's motives. My motives are irrelevant and you are so bad at guessing you really need to stop.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 11:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 276 of 1184 (840401)
09-28-2018 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Percy
09-28-2018 12:47 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
You are of course welcome top that opinion however I doubt you have any facts that include me as evidence.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Percy, posted 09-28-2018 12:47 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:06 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 277 of 1184 (840402)
09-28-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ringo
09-28-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ringo writes:
And a lot of criminals don't kill people. The law-abiding-citizens versus criminals argument is bogus.
I agree. That's one reason I don't use that argument.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 09-28-2018 1:21 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 278 of 1184 (840405)
09-29-2018 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Percy
09-28-2018 1:07 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Looks as if jar won't discuss his personal feelings on why he should be allowed these rights. Which is fine...I encourage everyone to look at this question from Quora and read a few of the comments afterward...they are from NRA members and former military/police type individuals...and they shed light on rationale: Why do people feel the need to carry a gun if they never intend to shoot anyone with it?
Also a question for Percy:
Q: Are you for or against totally disarming the Police? Why or why not?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Percy, posted 09-28-2018 1:07 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Tangle, posted 09-29-2018 3:48 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 282 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 279 of 1184 (840406)
09-29-2018 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phat
09-29-2018 2:48 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Phat writes:
Looks as if jar won't discuss his personal feelings on why he should be allowed these rights.
He has told us why, apparently it's 'because he wants to.' And he justifies what he does by saying that it is legal for him to do it.
His real motivation obviously isn't simply self-defence, he doesn't need all that gear just for that. It presumably makes him feel big, strong and macho carrying all that crap around with him on full display.
To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 2:48 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 9:34 AM Tangle has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 280 of 1184 (840407)
09-29-2018 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Tangle
09-29-2018 3:48 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Tangle writes:
It presumably makes him feel big, strong and macho carrying all that crap around with him on full display.
There you go making the same stupid comments as Phat does.
But I do support your right to make stupid comments.
Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun.
Tangle writes:
To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible.
Fortunately I am NOT in Europe.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Tangle, posted 09-29-2018 3:48 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:18 AM jar has replied
 Message 284 by Tangle, posted 09-29-2018 11:03 AM jar has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 281 of 1184 (840408)
09-29-2018 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by jar
09-28-2018 6:42 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
jar writes:
You are of course welcome top that opinion however I doubt you have any facts that include me as evidence.
Are you operating under some weird notion that statistics don't apply to you? That the risks of planes, trains, cars and guns don't apply to you? That your descriptions of constant honing of skills, eternal and masterful vigilance, and superior focus on carefulness and safety, are real rather than just vanity and braggadocio?
It is not an opinion that the presence of guns makes one less rather than more safe. It is not just a conclusion of research but also of plain old deductive thinking. No guns, probability of injury or death by gun is zero. One or more guns, probability of injury or death by gun is non-zero.
Since I'm talking of facts it is important to note that open carry of a gun can act as a deterrent to criminal attack. But the fact remains that a gun is far more likely to be used against oneself, friends or family than against a criminal. Not opinion, just the verdict of research.
It is clear from the way you write about them that you like guns because of how they make you feel and not because they are necessary or make you safer.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 6:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 11:32 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 282 of 1184 (840409)
09-29-2018 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phat
09-29-2018 2:48 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Phat writes:
Also a question for Percy:
Q: Are you for or against totally disarming the Police? Why or why not?
Over in the Police Shootings thread I'm on record as saying that rank and file police should not have guns, only special police units.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 2:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 283 of 1184 (840410)
09-29-2018 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by jar
09-29-2018 9:34 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
jar writes:
There you go making the same stupid comments as Phat does.
But I do support your right to make stupid comments.
Why do you constantly repeat the content-free accusation that the arguments of those discussing with you are stupid? You seem to have no actual data or reasoned arguments?
Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun.
You're fooling yourself, always the easiest person to fool.
Tangle writes:
To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible.
Fortunately I am NOT in Europe.
You're again making a content-free response and ignoring the reprehensibility of placing not just yourself but more importantly those around you in greater danger.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 9:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 11:33 AM Percy has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 284 of 1184 (840415)
09-29-2018 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by jar
09-29-2018 9:34 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Jar writes:
Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun.
Two wasn't it? In 'open carry' or whatever the bloody phrase is.
Almost no one notices? Like no one notices a personal number plate, red lipstick or a Gucci handbag. Being noticed is really the point isn't it?
Fortunately I am NOT in Europe.
If you were in the UK you'd be surrounded by armed police in seconds and spending a few years in jail. That is if you managed to evade the teenagers that would jump you to get their hands on an easy gun - or too. And a year's worth of bullets.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 9:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 11:47 AM Tangle has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 285 of 1184 (840416)
09-29-2018 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Percy
09-29-2018 10:06 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Percy writes:
Are you operating under some weird notion that statistics don't apply to you? That the risks of planes, trains, cars and guns don't apply to you? That your descriptions of constant honing of skills, eternal and masterful vigilance, and superior focus on carefulness and safety, are real rather than just vanity and braggadocio?
Why yes, Percy, I am.
But of course I was also under the impression you were smart enough to realize that statistics apply to populations and not individual events.
Percy writes:
It is clear from the way you write about them that you like guns because of how they make you feel and not because they are necessary or make you safer.
LOL. Yes, I enjoy building skills. I enjoy the difficulty and responsibility involved.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:06 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 12:42 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 286 of 1184 (840417)
09-29-2018 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Percy
09-29-2018 10:18 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
And you have not shown any evidence that I place anyone else at risk in any manner different than when I drive a car or walk on the street or many other things I do.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 10:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 11:42 AM jar has replied
 Message 296 by Percy, posted 09-29-2018 12:58 PM jar has not replied

  
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