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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1015 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 347 of 1184 (840553)
10-02-2018 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by ICANT
10-02-2018 1:14 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
The one that shows more people are killed by fists per year than all rifles which includes the AR15.
The one that shows more people are killed by feet per year than all rifles which includes the AR15.
The one that shows more people are killed by knives per year than all rifles which includes the AR15.
According to the CDC, in 2015 36,252 people were killed by guns.
In the same year, 4,814 people were victims of homicide without the use of a gun.
I am unable to find any stats on the numbers killed specifically by rifles or fists. Do you have them handy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 1:14 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 7:47 PM caffeine has replied

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(1)
Message 348 of 1184 (840566)
10-02-2018 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ICANT
09-27-2018 10:34 PM


Re: Problem
Hi Aussie,
Welcome to EvC since this is my first post in answer to you.
Hi ICANT! Thanks for the warm welcome, although I think I've been around a bit longer than you.
What amazes me is how some people can read a very long post and snatch out a couple of lines and make fun of them.
Those couple of lines were written together, I wasn't quote mining. And they are genuinely jaw-droppingly hilarious.
If you understood what I said you would realize I was talking about someone who was trying to kill me.
No, no, you made yourself perfectly clear. That's the funny part.
The Conservative Christians are among the most vociferous defenders of violent weapons. How your God seems to have shrunk...
The God of the Cloud by day, and Pillar of Fire by night. The God who promised his chosen ones that they could merely speak to a mountain and it would
flee before them and be cast into the Sea. The God who surrounds each of his own with warring angels to protect and defend them... these are the ones swaggering about talking like cowboys out of the old west about the need to carry weapons and defend themselves by violently killing other humans. Funnier still, the irony seems truly lost on you.

"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ICANT, posted 09-27-2018 10:34 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 7:14 PM Aussie has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 349 of 1184 (840569)
10-02-2018 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Tangle
10-02-2018 3:06 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
My point is that if you think that Jesus would approve of you and Jar strutting around carrying guns and knives you're corrupting everything he's supposed to stand for.
Jesus also said that if you don't have a sword to sell your cloak. If anything its an argument showing biblical contradictions, but not necessarily an argument against self-defense. But I will agree that Christians often advocate and seem inextricably linked to violence which, given most of what Jesus said, seems odd.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2018 3:06 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 12:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 2:40 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 350 of 1184 (840570)
10-02-2018 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hyroglyphx writes:
... not necessarily an argument against self-defense.
Turning the other cheek is a pretty good argument against self-defense.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 12:52 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 12:57 PM ringo has replied
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 2:44 PM ringo has replied
 Message 386 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 7:58 PM ringo has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 351 of 1184 (840572)
10-02-2018 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ringo
10-02-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Turning the other cheek is a pretty good argument against self-defense.
"I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword." - Jesus "Hippie" Christ
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 12:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 1:00 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 352 of 1184 (840575)
10-02-2018 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2018 12:57 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hyroglyphx writes:
"I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword." - Jesus "Hippie" Christ
That isn't about self-defense.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 12:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 353 of 1184 (840578)
10-02-2018 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by ICANT
10-02-2018 1:34 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
'Christians' with guns, go tell that story to Jesus...
John tells us Peter had his sword in the Garden he used to cut off Malchus. ear. John 18:10.
Luke tells us Jesus healed that man's ear. Luke 22:51.
So what's your point?
Again, this is hilarious.
According to the story, Peter was apparently "Open carrying" a lethal weapon in public. Even after following the Living Christ around as He engaged in His public ministry, there was that moment where Peter lost his temper, and USED THAT DEADLY WEAPON AGAINST A FELLOW HUMAN IN ANGER IN AN APPARENT ATTEMPT TO KILL.
Sorry for yelling at you in italics, but the subtlety of your own words seems to have been lost on you. If enough people carry enough deadly weapons around, then statistically it becomes almost inevitable that some of them will be used inappropriately and with many tears and much regret. Like Peter and the sword. Except in real life there is no magic spell that can instantly heal the wounds we make.

"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 1:34 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2018 6:38 PM Aussie has not replied
 Message 387 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 8:14 PM Aussie has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 354 of 1184 (840579)
10-02-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Supporting the right to carry arms is not the same thing as supporting "violence." If anything it could be argued that it is the reverse, that is, supporting the means to prevent violence. No matter what the statistics say about probabilities, the actual motivation by individuals for the second amendment is as much to prevent violence as provide means of self defense.
However, Jesus said two swords for the whole group was enough, not a huge support for carrying arms. But it is SOME support.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 12:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 355 of 1184 (840580)
10-02-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ringo
10-02-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Just as you say Jesus bringing a sword not peace is not about self-defense, neither is turning the other cheek about self-defense. Turning the other cheek is about being insulted -- that's what a slap on the cheek meant. It is not a threat to your life. Therefore you can't say that turning the other cheek is an argument against self-defense.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 12:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:03 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 356 of 1184 (840581)
10-02-2018 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
10-02-2018 2:44 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:
Turning the other cheek is about being insulted -- that's what a slap on the cheek meant. It is not a threat to your life.
Don't you get tired of being wrong all of the time?
Jesus said:
quote:
Matthew 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
He was definitely talking about physical injury, not insult. He was refering to the Old Testament law:
quote:
Exodus 21:23-25 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Definitely about physical injury and/or death. Definitely not about insult.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 2:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 3:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 357 of 1184 (840582)
10-02-2018 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Faith
10-02-2018 2:40 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:
However, Jesus said two swords for the whole group was enough, not a huge support for carrying arms. But it is SOME support.
He said that the swords were for a (contrived) fullfilment of the prophecy - i.e. they were evidence against Him, showing that He was leading an armed rebellion. It was a bit like leaving dead bodies dressed in Polish uniforms outside that German radio station in September, 1939.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 2:40 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 8:23 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 358 of 1184 (840583)
10-02-2018 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by ringo
10-02-2018 3:03 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hey you're right. I didn't know that was the context, I always thought it was about being insulted. So it is about personal injury -- although the examples are not life-threatening, losing an eye or a tooth.
So it is about non-retaliation. But on a personal level. Jesus was always talking to individuals and that often gets confused with government in these discussions. We shouldn't defend ourselves personally, but what about defending our country, our neighbors, our family etc. Jesus doesn't speak on that level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:40 PM Faith has replied
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:01 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 359 of 1184 (840587)
10-02-2018 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Faith
10-02-2018 3:27 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:
Hey you're right. I didn't know that was the context....
It baffles me how you can miss what the Bible plainly says so often. That's why I don't trust you when you cite thousands of theologians and apologists for thousands of years agreeing with you. Either you're getting them wrong or they got it wrong.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 3:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 3:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 360 of 1184 (840592)
10-02-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by ringo
10-02-2018 3:40 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
No, you just like your own interpretations, I don't get it wrong very often at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:00 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 361 of 1184 (840595)
10-02-2018 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
10-02-2018 3:53 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:
No, you just like your own interpretations, I don't get it wrong very often at all.
Reality says otherwise. I'm not the only one who has proven you wrong on multiple occasions.
I also cheer you every time you're right.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 3:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:09 PM ringo has replied

  
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