Gun Control III

I didn't write that, Tangle. Aussie wrote it to jaywill I think.But no, I don't think Jesus would carry a weapon.

I'm sure some Christians do confuse their Christian life with their worldly life, and I'm also sure these discussions usually revolve around just that sort of confusion, unbelievers in particular always misapplying what Jesus said to individual believers, confusing it with the obligations of government and citizenship in this world.

Not clear enough I guess. There is a distinction between the Christian life of individual interactions and our lives as members of worldly governments and societies in this world. Jesus did not tell the Roman Centurions who believed in Him to give up their calling as soldiers although they too were called to turn the other cheek and walk the extra mile in the right contexts as all other believers are.I also often think of what Watchman Nee said to Christian women who refused to cover their heads in church on the basis of their freedom in Christ: he said we must not frustrate God's government by God's grace. As long as we live on this fallen planet we are subject to God's government in various forms and are not to be ruled by God's grace as our individual lives are supposed to be. Women should be covering our heads in church and it is a violation of God's government that this practice has been so largely abandoned; it is not a matter for grace in this case.Also we can't apply standards of grace to worldly governments. Governments can't turn the other cheek or walk the extra mile with their enemies because that would be abandoning their first obligation which is to protect their citizens.

No American who speaks of any part of our Constitution as archaic and anachronistic deserves to be called rational or sane.

You have absolutely no respect for history.

In its historical cultural context those things were perfectly rational. And I'm sure you have the 3/5 provision wrong as most people do, preferring to see it as a judgment on the humanity of slaves, but it wasn't. Since they were property they were counted as 3/5 of a person having to do with representation in Congress or something like that. I hope you knew that but I'd bet you didn't. And judging all those other historical facts as irrational just shows your basic ignorance and uninterest in history and cultural context. Another way you are *really* a Leftist.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Gosh you're not very bright are you? The percentage was a percentage of political representation, not humanity. Duh.As for treating classes of people as property of course you are SO superior to the vast majority of the human race that has historically kept slaves as property. Duh. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Ooooooo, talk about yer insults.

OK I'll give you that but it still needs to be said that the 3/5 was not in itself a judgment of the humanity of slaves which is how it is usually construed.

You don't get to define the Second Amendment in any sense whatever.

This conversation has wandered way off track. It started with my pointing out that Trump did not say anything to approve of white supremacists, which is the usual Leftist fake news lie; he only commented that there are many good people on both sides of the question about preserving versus taking down historical memorials in the South. Of course the Leftists had to make a mess of that too.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I think I did a pretty good job on *my* interpretation of the Second Amendment on an earlier version of this thread, in Message 57 and I think probably some other posts on that thread as well. I had read up on it before posting there, and here's one paragraph of what I wrote:"Actually I do know what the founders wanted and it was NOT an organized militia for the very reason that such a body can be used against the people which is the exact opposite of the intent of the amendment. The concept of an armed citizenry goes back to England and possibly other sources long before the second amendment was written, which built on that history. The point was for individual citizens to have the means of self defense. "Edited by Faith, : No reason given.