Importance of Original Sin

I feel like the rich young ruler...going away sad. I simply cant measure up to this commandment to give it all away. I suppose that being an atheist, you trust the socialists to take care of you when you get too old to earn anything.

I don't trust the socialists either. That's why I need to save some back for my retirement.

About giving... but that's ludicrous! We are talking reality here...not some woo where coins appear in fishes mouths or gold appears in one's pocket. The fact is that everyone needs a certain amount of income or wealth to live in this world and to trade for food, clothing, and shelter! I agree with Faith in that the message is not for each and every Christian. Even jar says that under socialism there is a way to save for retirement. You cant retire if you've given everything you own away.

There are some pretty solid arguments denouncing salvation by works alone.

OK, Mr.Smartie Pants. Have you sold your house yet?

quote:

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Acts 5:34-35 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

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The Apostles were to be trusted and were directly in charge of the distribution. The people were as one, in communion. Whose feet would you lay it down in front of today? And dont give me that song and dance about socialists being a larger brotherhood of kum-ba-yah. Nor that any government can substitute for the Apostles. I'll take my chances with Jesus scolding me rather than fall for that Marxist utopian ideology.

What gets me is why they both fell dead. What killed them?

so again...what killed them?

OK lets go with your theory. You dont believe in God nor in any Holy authority. Thus, you give as much as you can out of an inner sense of obligation...because you believe in socialistic pricipals and humanistic love for your brethren. Do you have to give all that you can? Is that why you owe back taxes? Who tells you to give 100%?Perhaps in a Utopian world, we would all give 100% for each other...is that what you suggest that our Bible whom we believe in says?Are you against any right whatsoever to private ownership?

Don't forget the richest man of them all--Jeff Bezos of Amazon...now worth 150 billion dollars. And Amazon just announced they will start paying all of their workers a minimum of $15.00 an hour! Bravo for that! Other corporations exploit the poorer people and hire them on and get rid of the ones making over $12.00 an hour.But back to giving it all. I have a clear conscience that I give what I can. Yes, I can always do more. But im 59 and need to retire. If I give 100% of what I earned, I would have absolutely nothing for retirement in 8 years. Can I count on social security in conservative populist America? I don't think so...And I can't count on the church to do any more than giving me Raman noodles and cans of food from a food bank. I hope to keep my house because I would not do well at being homeless.

all of the generous churches will give food to whoever needs it...my point is that i cant retire on just promises of food

Because we no longer have Apostles...people we can trust---to hand it over to. There is no comparable system today that is anywhere near as integral as the one described in Acts.I can accept your argument that we are charged to give 100% in life. I can even agree with your argument that the specific group of believers mentioned in the Book Of Acts did, in fact, have a group consensus on giving 100%. What I am telling you and have told you before is that there is no group with trusted leaders with which I feel comfortable being in that same type of commitment with.On an individual level, I cannot argue with you. The lack of a modern group of people like the Believers in Acts makes the case for what Faith is frustratingly trying to explain.Finally, there is no comparable church that I know of today.

Ok explain whom i would hypothetically or actually sign my possessions over to?

I also believe in reality. I have yet to meet even one Christian (or anyone, for that matter) who has simply given everything away. I'll concede the point to you, but agree with Faith that what was told to the rich young ruler was not something that everyone needed to literally do. He had great wealth and it was this wealth and attitude towards it that was keeping him from the 100% goal. Did Jesus ever tell the Roman Centurion to sell everything? Apart from His Disciples, did He even need to preach such a message to crowds of largely poor folks? Most of them had nothing anyway.I wont argue with you on this one, however. I dont plan on selling the only house I have anytime soon, however. Based on your interpretation, no Christian would ever own anything.Thank God my Dad never believed that way!

There really are two ways to look at this.
I: The believers were in communion and agreement. Thus to be a member of the club, one couldn't own anything apart from the needs of that group. That much I can see. Faiths argument, if I interpret it correctly, is that God does not expect every Christian on Earth to have everything in common and own nothing. That's just the wishes of a dreamy Canadian Socialist.

All I am saying is that communal ownership is impractical in today's world for someone living in the United States...unless they and a bunch of "true believers" want to go off and start a commune similar to what Truthlover did.The basic principle is sound--I have no argument with it nor am I weaseling out of anything. As I have said before, I could always give more and do more...but I am not naive enough to sell everything I have and skip through skid row handing out stuff. I would end up living right there with them...which may be what you see yourself doing.For an atheist, you may make it to Heaven quicker than either Faith or myself....but I think you simply take our Biblical Principles and turn them around on us to win an argument that you yourself only idealistically comprehend....