Importance of Original Sin

If Jesus telling you that's what you must do to be saved doesn't convince you, what does it take? If the policy of the early church (see Ananias and Sapphira) doesn't convince you that Jesus meant what he said, what does it take? Pardon me for thinking that Christians might want to do what Jesus told them to do. So now you're using modern socialism to cop out of following Jesus? You've come a long way, baby.

See my post to Diomedes above. I think that modern socialism is a good thing. As a Christian, I disagree with non-Christians like ringo taking a literal reading of who he sees as a character in a book and embracing the message even though it is not what modern socialism would advocate...according to your definitions. Additionally, I feel that I have a better idea of what Jesus wants than do non-believers. They likely would argue otherwise...though for the life of me I don't know why.One does not do a plain literal reading of a 2000-year-old "message and apply it to modern society in a modern context. I would argue that at least some Christians are more qualified to comment on what Jesus means for us today rather than throwing him away and keeping a 2000-year-old message in a book with which to defend your point.

To me, the message is not something written down thousands of years ago. It is also largely irrelevant what ancient folks did or didn't do. If Jesus is relevant at all, He is relevant in a current living sense. It takes hearing from Him now. It takes loving Him and loving others as I do myself. Granted here is where your argument may have some teeth....I should consider the least of these as I do myself. Tus I give...and could give more...but nowhere do I feel I must give all...except in spirit. You likely advocate giving all because you are losing what little you have anyway...and justify the message. Show me how I am not following Jesus. You claim to follow a 2000-year-old message because you yourself may need the spare change from others someday. A wise steward at least. Just stop trying to use the message of Jesus to get my spare change. You might be surprised that I would even give it to you, but I listen to my conscience and not any cardboard sign nor forlorn character on a corner.

You have it backwards. The message is timeless. Jesus got it. Socialists get it. The envellope that it came in is what's irrelevant. You know that. Why do you keep trying to convince yourself that you don't? But you can't demonstrate that you are hearing from Him now. Been there, done that. You're not doing what His followers did. Maybe you should turn up the volume on your conscience.

Which message in particular? The books have more than one.If we are talking Matthew 25 again, you may be interested to read this brief article.
Was Jesus A Socialist, Capitalist, Or Something Else?

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It’s fascinating how frequently modern dilettantes re-make Christ in their image via Matthew 25. Socialists finesse Scripture to justify redistributing wealth to the least of these (Matthew 25:40), while capitalists overplay the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30). Both tout Christ’s teachings as a crucial trump card.

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Sounds like *someone* I know of on the internet! The author also penned this article: Do Marxism And Christianity Have Anything In Common?...some noteworthy quotes:

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The Marxist dialectic redefines good and evil. Sin changed from rebellion against God into striving for individual ends as opposed to the collective. The institution of property rights represented original sin.(...)Those passages in Acts were descriptive more than prescriptive. Taking them otherwise throws out virtually everything else in Scripture. Frederick Engels saw this clearly, "If some few passages of the Bible may be favorable to communism, the general spirit of its doctrines is, nevertheless, totally opposed to it."

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Comments? (Yes...others read the Bible too...and have a right to their opinions and beliefs.)

Jesus seemed to think there was only one:

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Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

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Well, that's a good answer. Love God and love others as I do myself. The only problem is that sometimes I abuse myself. I eat bad foods. I drink too much. I smoke the peace pipe till my lungs hurt. I need to work on taking care of myself as well as helping others.

He said love your neighbour as you love yourself, not treat your neighbour as you treat yourself. You don't get to pass on the abuse. You're supposed to put your best foot forward.

Do you believe we should sell our homes to help our neighbors? If everyone did that we would all be homeless.Or do you believe that "the state" should own all homes?Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Do you think all of the members of the early church (see Ananias and Sapphira) were homeless? I think the state should provide homes for people who need them. The voluntary charities that fundamentalists tout are failing miserably to do that.

Because for one thing, you among all whom I have talked to on these matters are the only one who essentially deems the messenger as irrelavant...little more than an envelope. I suppose that jar too agrees to an extent...though he does not claim atheism as you do. Every other source that I listen to emphasizes Christ. You would say that they are mouthing "Lord, Lord" but I am not as skeptical of all of organized religion as you and jar are. Tangle is right---it is a topsy-turvy world we live in. I CANT and jar both proudly carry guns and you advocate leftist progressive policies...which I give you a hard time about, by the way...I noticed you didn't comment on the two articles that I linked you to in post# 1115. They do make a point on using Jesus to advocate modern left-leaning principles. Why would I even entertain any idea from you regarding what it "takes" to get saved? You don't even believe that we are lost, to begin with. Its the envelope that does the saving...not the message...this is where you and jar are wrong. You both advocate that Christianity is all about one does rather than what one believes. Faith believes that it is all about what one believes and that God predetermined this stuff from the beginning. (She claims staunch Calvinism) I am in the middle of these two extremes. I don't think for a moment that God pre-picked and chose everyone that He knew would respond to His call, nor do I believe that He would smile benevolently on humans who shared everything in a giant communal living arrangement...that itself seems cruel...ever try sharing a room with several people? Uncomfortable, isn't it!If for the overall sake of argument you are asking me to examine my conscience and be more generous, I won't argue the point--I agree. If you are asking me to either sell my house or share my resources with more people, I feel you are asking too much. If you argue that this is what Jesus asked, I will honestly admit to Him that I can't do it. As did the rich young ruler. And yet I am hardly rich.

On the contrary, any atheist will tell you the same thing, and any Muslim, etc. will tell you that your messenger is irrelevant. Then you should broaden your horizons. They make an apologetic point, not a good one. Because the idea comes directly from the Bible, in the exact words of the One that you purport to follow. Because that same Bible is the only source you have for even the existence of the One you purport to follow. How can you even say that with a straight face? Can you really not see how utterly, utterly stupid that is? Try telling the phone company to shove their bill and just send you the envellope. I grew up with three bothers in one bedroom. It has its good and bad points. I would certainly rather do that than watch my brother sleeping in the gutter. I wouldn't suggest that you're not generous enough. That's between you and your conscience. But I don't like to see your conscience being over-ridden by right-wing politics or Faith-like perverted theology. I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm just pointing out what Jesus said.

I don't believe that this is true. God has been around long before any humans existed or any words were written...and I dont need evidence to be convincedYoyu can claim that without evidence I have no case, but I would simply say that your science and evidence are irrelevant in this case.And thus we disagree

Just had to give this from your quote some special space of its own. Engels yet. Yes indeed. Truth from the mouth of a Communist. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But you're actively rejecting the evidence.You claim to believe in Jesus but the only evidence we have of what Jesus thought is in the Bible. You can make up whatever woo-God you like but you shouldn't be linking Jesus to it.