|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well, that's exactly how science works. Nothing is accepted unless it can be verified. And you do the same thing in real life more often than you might like to admit. Do you ignore outside information on every topic and go only with your own "subjective experience"?
You cant have a scientist around trailing you with a Geiger counter everytime you pick up a rock. Phat writes:
That's a pretty poor analogy. You want a map that has been verified as much as possible. There's no point in having a map at all if it's one you made up in your head. You can read your own head directly, without a map, but you can't trust it to be accurate.
You chose a different map than I (and other believers ) chose...but it is, in the end, YOUR map...it need not be everyone's map. Phat writes:
Your choice of map should be based on accuracy, shouldn't it? It might be fun to make up a map in your head of a place with an ice cream stand on every corner but is that a useful map? I have seen many maps describing the Bible...some dismiss it and others corroborate parts of it....but it is my decision which mapmakers to listen to.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I think you're moving the goalposts. Sure, there are situations where you have to weigh evidence against evidence to make a decision. But I thought we were talking about "subjective experieces" of things like God. You said, after all, that Straggler hadn't had any. My point is that at this point in time, no one side can claim the final say in verifiable data nor in the results of subjective experiences.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So, if we are talking about "experiences" where there is no evidence, why would you accept your individual perceptions there? Why not check them against others' experiences and perceptions? Granted I was assuming.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because you might be wrong. If you don't consider other options, how can you have any confidence in your conclusions? It's better to become right than to stay wrong. Also the fact that I don't agree with some of the others, so why would I want to consider that they might have a point?And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It doesn't say that. The early Christian church certainly didn't take it that way.
But not everybody is required to sell or give up everything unless perhaps metaphorically. Phat writes:
If you claim to have faith in somebody and that somebody tells you to do something, then yes, having faith certainly does mean doing what that somebody says. Having faith does not automatically mean selling or giving away everything. The story of the centurion is about authority, not possessions. And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Phat writes:
Do you think the story records every word that Jesus said? One story records one lesson and another story records another lesson. You can't use the lack of a detail in one story as a loophole.
You actually think that Jesus wouldn't fully capitalize on a teaching moment if the teaching were needed? Phat writes:
I'm not embracing anything. I'm just pointing out what the Bible says.
My point is that you personally embrace this teaching of giving it all up because you yourself are giving a lot up.... Phat writes:
Do you know how bizarre that sounds? You think I need an "excuse" to love my neighbour? You have it backwards. It's the people who hold back who need an excuse for their behaviour.
... and need the "teaching" as a valid excuse. Phat writes:
You're guilty of claiming to "believe in Jesus" and then refusing to do what He told you to do.
Then you attempt to project it onto me as if I am guilty of some sin. Phat writes:
But it is.
I am only showing you that "giving it all away" is not a primary theme in all of the scripture... Phat writes:
You're disagreeing with the followers who knew Jesus personally while He was alive - the ones who actually were in communion with Him. ... nor is it intended for everyone.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's what Jesus said. Argue with Him. Its patently ridiculous to sell all that one has. It's what the early church practiced. Argue with them.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The early church thought He did. Argue with them.
No Jesus did not tell anyone but that particular young man to give up all. Faith writes:
Yet they were punished for not doing it:
... it is specifically said to Ananias and Sapphira that it was not required.quote:"And to keep back part of the price of the land." I can keep quoting it as long as you can keep claiming that it isn't there. And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Remember Ananias and Sapphira?
ringo writes:
Prove it. the early church thought He did. Argue with them. Faith writes:
AND for keeping back part of the price of the land.
They were punished for lying about it. Faith writes:
I don't conflate. The Bible conjoins. Do you know what the word AND means? There is no reason to think the statements are different.
You conflate two statements that are different. Faith writes:
Appeal to popularity and/or authority - not a valid argument. the entire Church disagrees with you about this.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's just silly.
You need an excuse why you are losing all of your stuff. Phat writes:
I sure can. It says what it says, whether you choose to reject it or not.
But you cant project your plain reading of the Bible into a sermon for all of us... Phat writes:
As I've told Faith, an appeal to popularity and/or authority is not a valid argument. The Bible says what it says, whether an entire church chooses to reject it or not. And rejecting it is self-serving, which makes their conclusion doubly suspect.
... and argue against an entire church that its the gospel... Phat writes:
My socialist leaning has no influence on what the Bible says. It says what it says.
...just because you lean socialist anyway. Phat writes:
Yes, that's exactly the way it's supposed to be. That's what Jesus taught: Contribute what you can and you'll get what you need. You will end up falling in the ditch with the very sheep you are trying to help and expecting someone else to give you the spare change. In the Old Testament, Elijah expected the widow to contribute her last morsel of food - and she didn't starve in the gutter because of it. Even Noah had to contribute all he could. In the New Testament, Jesus told the young ruler to sell what he had and give to the poor. Jesus Himself and his disciples followed the same rule. The early church followed the same rule. Jesus commended the widow for giving her last two mites. It's a theme: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're arguing with Jesus. I work hard for my money, and I dont give it away carelessly.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yes he is. No he isn't. All of his arguments have been addressed. If you have an argument beyond, "Nuh uh," fire away.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And you're not. The context is clear that they were punished for lying AND holding back. The phrase added by AND is an important part of the context that you're ignoring. You do have to read in context.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The only right they had to the land was under Roman law.
It is clear from the fact that they had a right to their land to dispose of it however they wished that they couldn't be punished for holding back part of it, that makes no sense at all. Faith writes:
Whatever God deems punishable by the death penalty is punishable by the death penalty. Lot's wife got the death penalty for looking over her shoulder. They were in the wrong because everybody else was giving all their possessions but that isn't a punishable wrong, especially not punishable by the death penalty. It is very plain from the text that Ananias and Sapphira were punished for lying AND for holding back. AND.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That would be the same motive that Ananias amd Sapphira had. I can't see any motive whatever for a believer to "want" to see anything in particular in the BibleAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024