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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1248 of 2073 (842605)
11-03-2018 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1245 by RAZD
11-03-2018 1:48 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
quote:
Please tell me where Jesus specifically talks about a change in nature --
Wherever Genesis or another part of the bible speaks, He speaks. He talked to Moses and confirmed that things written about the beginning were correct.
Jesus talked about heaven so that involves a change from nature as we know it also. All the miracles He did also show He was not limited by nature.
quote:
We've already covered this, they are conclusions from the evidence, not assumptions. The evidence shows the same types of tree rings indistinguishable from the types of annual rings today: conclusion - they are annual rings, and counting them gives the age/s in years. Every test on the tree rings, from C14 levels to matching historical events has only confirmed they are annual rings.
You have never shown what pre 4500 year rings look like. I seem to recall you appealed that we trust in those who looked at them.
Besides, you are in no position to say what a ring grown in the former nature would look like. You look at them as if they were grown in this nature. ( I guess technically you do not look at them, you trust others who looked at them)
quote:
No, we look at light spectra here and now, and we see the same patterns of light bands in the spectra that match the patterns of elements here and now:
Nothing in the spectra tells us what time is like there. Science also admits it only sees something like 5% of the universe anyhow!
quote:
quote:
The emission spectrum of a chemical element or chemical compound is the spectrum of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation emitted due to an atom or molecule making a transition from a high energy state to a lower energy state.
Emitted here in the fishbowl.
quote:
The photon energy of the emitted photon is equal to the energy difference between the two states.
Here in the fishbowl that may be the case. How would you know it was also equal out there before the light got here, where the light exists under our rules and time? If time did not exist how would something TAKE time to decay or...do anything?
quote:
There are many possible electron transitions for each atom, and each transition has a specific energy difference.
Fishbowl possibilities. There may be more possibilities out in some unknown space and time that we never conceived of.
quote:
This collection of different transitions, leading to different radiated wavelengths, make up an emission spectrum.
Transitions that happen here...transitions that take so much time as time is known and exists here..etc.
quote:
Each element's emission spectrum is unique.
Yes, the way we see light and info and the way it comes to have to exist here is unique, of course.
quote:
Therefore, spectroscopy can be used to identify the elements in matter of unknown composition.
Fishbowl identification is great. We can identify what things are like here. Some info I suspect would even tell us something about what is out there, before it got here. For example, the elements we see in the spectra. What else is out there, and how elements exactly exist out there and behave out there and unfold in time out there...well, we don't really know of course.
quote:
Similarly, the emission spectra of molecules can be used in chemical analysis of substances.
Each element has their own unique pattern of light bars because of the quantum physics of energy states. When we see the same pattern, we see the signature of those elements. Each element has multiple bands, one for each energy state that produces a photon emission.
Similarly, what energy state we would see elements in here depends on our fishbowl nature/time/rules etc.
quote:
The star light we are seeing them in is from far away in the universe,
How far you have no clue at all, since you need time to exist the same to know distances!
quote:
and thus there is some red shift in the position of the emission spectrum bands, due to the expansion of the universe.
What is responsible for shifted light way out in another time and space is not actually known. You assign fishbowl reasons to all things we see from out of the fishbowl!
quote:
We observe the emission bands, we observe that the pattern of bands and gaps match specific elements here on earth, we observe that they are shifted towards the red end of the spectrum, we observe that this is consistent with great distance and the expansion of the universe. We conclude that this confirms the current model of the universe.
Absurd. Just because something shifts a certain way in fishbowl time and space and laws, does not mean it shifts that way out there.
quote:
Nope, we only need to conclude that the observations are consistent with the current model of the universe and that the red shift is consistent with great distance and the expansion of the universe.
Redshift has meaning here in the fishbowl. That meaning stays here. Trying to assign all redshifted light (or what appears in the fishbowl as redshited light) the fishbowl reasons for shifting is an exercise in belief.
quote:
Except that the evidence supports the conclusion of similar time, as modeled with relativity.
How? How does GR deal with what time is? GR deals with the fishbowl. If we see some star of unknown size or distance that has shifted light when it orbits or something, that does not tell us how long the orbit takes, how big anything is how far away...etc etc.
quote:
So tell me again how this "ONE belief" affects the Egyptian chronology and the tree rings and results in multiple correlations of dates in the Old Kingdom and afterwards.
Your belief makes tree rings look a certain way to you and everything else. If I looked at a ring that you cannot show us a picture of strangely, from 5000 'years' ago, it would look like a ring to me. I would not have to be biased and obsess over how it had to grow in a year in this nature for no reason!
quote:
Be specific:
how does it change the Egyptian chronology
how does it change the tree ring chronology
how does it make these changes and still have multiple correlations
Rings grown in weeks would not represent years, so your so called correlations and chronologies crumble into absurdity.
quote:
Because this is what should be taught in school -- how to demonstrate that a claim is valid.
Yet you offer king lists that have spirits? You offer tree rings you can't show or demonstrate grew in this nature??
Kids...rebel...revolt intellectually...you have been lied to.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1245 by RAZD, posted 11-03-2018 1:48 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1249 by Phat, posted 11-03-2018 3:29 PM creation has replied
 Message 1251 by RAZD, posted 11-03-2018 5:01 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1252 of 2073 (842633)
11-04-2018 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1249 by Phat
11-03-2018 3:29 PM


Re: Fishbowl Assumptions
Science does not lead. It follows. If something is unknown...it is not science. When you do not know...why blame science for leading you there?
As for the fishbowl, that simply refers to the area man knows and has been to even via probes. So basically the solar system and area. Not even a lousy single light DAY away!
Ha
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1249 by Phat, posted 11-03-2018 3:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1253 of 2073 (842634)
11-04-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1250 by Tanypteryx
11-03-2018 3:56 PM


Re: Fishbowl Assumptions
God is not from this nature and time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1250 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-03-2018 3:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1256 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-04-2018 1:06 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1254 of 2073 (842635)
11-04-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1251 by RAZD
11-03-2018 5:01 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Wrong. The document of Scripture tells us when things started to really be different.
As I deduce things, it was likely at the time of Babel, in the days of Peleg, possibly when he was six years old, which may have been about 107 years after the flood.
As for what rings grown is some former unknown nature would look like...sorry, your opinion cannot be based in any fact. Find something you know about and talk about that.
Your 'correlations' have been shown to all rest on the concept/belief that this present nature existed all the while. The correlations therefore, obviously are no better than that belief.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1251 by RAZD, posted 11-03-2018 5:01 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1255 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-04-2018 1:02 PM creation has replied
 Message 1258 by RAZD, posted 11-04-2018 1:38 PM creation has replied
 Message 1259 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-04-2018 1:56 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1260 of 2073 (842810)
11-08-2018 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1255 by Tanypteryx
11-04-2018 1:02 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Show us any so called correlation then, that does not rest on the premise of a same nature in the past? Ha. You lose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1255 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-04-2018 1:02 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-08-2018 4:23 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1261 of 2073 (842811)
11-08-2018 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1257 by ringo
11-04-2018 1:11 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
False prophesy. Faith may be smaller in the US, but that does not mean creation belief in the world is dead. On the contrary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1257 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 11-09-2018 11:08 AM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1262 of 2073 (842812)
11-08-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1258 by RAZD
11-04-2018 1:38 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Long lives in Sumer and Scripture, and apparently China also all agree. Science has nothing to say about it. That renders your allusions to science agreeing with your foolish and baselsss doubts and beliefs rather useless in a science thread.
The changes in life spans are at the time of Peleg in the bible. There are also no angels living with women on earth after that time. There was also a division of language and how men understood/processed info at that time. There is also no fast growing trees in history after this time..etc.
It is amusing that someone that claims the universe was farted out of some small speck o soup, and that man is related to flatworms with no evidence at all would declare the records of antiquity to be 'meaningless'!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by RAZD, posted 11-04-2018 1:38 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-08-2018 5:00 PM creation has replied
 Message 1265 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2018 9:23 AM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1267 of 2073 (843278)
11-15-2018 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1266 by ringo
11-09-2018 11:08 AM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
In post 1224 you said this
"Nope. Creationism is dead. The world will go on quite nicely without it."
That is false prophesy. You see the bible says all the world will be basically covered with the knowledge of God. Your prophesy is opposite.
Let's not pretend it was prophesy. Be honest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 11-09-2018 11:08 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by ringo, posted 11-16-2018 11:04 AM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1268 of 2073 (843279)
11-15-2018 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1265 by RAZD
11-09-2018 9:23 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
What science covers/deals with the far past early history of man and what nature existed? None. Pretending science is needed/available to deal with this is not honest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1265 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2018 9:23 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2018 8:11 AM creation has replied
 Message 1275 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2018 4:48 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1269 of 2073 (843280)
11-15-2018 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1263 by Tanypteryx
11-08-2018 4:23 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
No evidence exists or was shown that no change occurred. Beliefs were offered that we need to look at all things and interpret all things using the beliefs.
Others have beliefs also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-08-2018 4:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1271 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-15-2018 9:37 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1270 of 2073 (843281)
11-15-2018 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by Tanypteryx
11-08-2018 5:00 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
You are not in the position to wave off all records of China and Sumer and Egypt and Scripture as fiction. Sorry.
Gong!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-08-2018 5:00 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-15-2018 9:47 PM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1276 of 2073 (843577)
11-19-2018 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1275 by AZPaul3
11-17-2018 4:48 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
What was left here does not tell us what nature existed. Noah was left. Yet he looked the same more or less I assume. What could you tell if you had dissected Noah about the former nature???
People looked the same after the nature change, they just started to live a lot less years.
Since we do not have DNA from early man we can't use that. So what DO you have??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1275 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2018 4:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by AZPaul3, posted 11-19-2018 6:49 PM creation has replied
 Message 1280 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-19-2018 11:16 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1277 of 2073 (843579)
11-19-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1274 by RAZD
11-17-2018 8:11 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Mutations occur now. That is what is observed. The way evolution happened in the former days we do not know.
Nor do we know what the created kinds were from which all adapting/evolving started. Nor do we know aout nature in the far past, and how creatures would have quickly evolved/adapted to that. Nor do we know that any possibility existed in that former nature for them to be able to leave fossil remains! So the fossils we do see could and probebly do only represent a small small small small fraction of what variety of life LIVED and existed also when those creatures that became the fossils we do have died!!!
Science assumes the fossil record represents a good cross section/sampling of life on earth at the time of the fossil creation..no?
Sorry, stop pushing your religion on kids.
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1274 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2018 8:11 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1279 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-19-2018 11:09 PM creation has replied
 Message 1284 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2018 7:21 AM creation has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1281 of 2073 (843660)
11-20-2018 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1280 by Tanypteryx
11-19-2018 11:16 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Wrong. You have NONE from the pre flood or even early post flood era at all! The misdated (by your beliefs) remains of men you have are all post nature change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1280 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-19-2018 11:16 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1287 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-20-2018 12:25 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1282 of 2073 (843661)
11-20-2018 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1279 by Tanypteryx
11-19-2018 11:09 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
False. They admit the fossils are a small portion of life that existed, but they also believe it represents the basic sort of life that lived then. For example, there are precambrian fossils, and they think that they represent what lived!!!!!!!! Cambrian...etc etc.
Be honest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1279 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-19-2018 11:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1288 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-20-2018 12:57 PM creation has replied

  
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