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Author Topic:   Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections
ringo
Member
Posts: 16136
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 166 of 223 (842867)
11-09-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
11-08-2018 6:00 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
Faith writes:

quote:
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

abe: Oh and it's a really big mistake to pit Jesus against the Old Testament since He IS the God of the Old Testament incarnate


Your quote is bracketed before and after by the Old Testament and the New Testament:
quote:
Genesis 4:15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
God Himself specifically forbade killing the first murderer.
quote:
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And Jesus pointed out that even IF murderers deserve to die, none of us is qualified to kill them. (There's that pesky, "Judge not lest ye be judged," thing again.)

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 11-08-2018 6:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 11:24 PM ringo has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 167 of 223 (847787)
01-26-2019 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Paboss
11-05-2018 2:24 AM


Re: Adam was created as he was. Perishable
quote:

The book of Genesis agrees with you. If you look at the story of Adam and Eve, when they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they didn't die nor became mortal. What happened to them was the exact thing the snake said. God kicked them off Eden so that they wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. This means they weren't immortal, but if they had eaten from the Tree of Life they would have become. Hence, they were created mortal.

Maybe that's how Paul and the people of his time saw this story, but as time went on the meaning was altered to suit a different audience.


The gnostics felt the whole material creation was something of an evil act.

"Dualism" means something to the effect that (perhaps) EVERYTHING IN THE PRESENT was in existence from some "beginning" and good and evil are simply products of all all existing from "the beginning".

Augustine certainly did not want to support this type of theology.

(Paul, of course, pre-dated Augustine, but it is not 100% certain what Paul believed)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Paboss, posted 11-05-2018 2:24 AM Paboss has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4773
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 168 of 223 (847835)
01-27-2019 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by ringo
11-09-2018 11:36 AM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
ringo writes:

And Jesus pointed out that even IF murderers deserve to die, none of us is qualified to kill them. (There's that pesky, "Judge not lest ye be judged," thing again.)

I don't want to get embroiled in this discussion but I can't resist commenting on your post ringo. I don't see your "judge not lest ye be judged" quote is applicable when it comes to capital punishment. When our courts sentences someone to life in prison we as a society are judging them and saying that what they have done is absolutely wrong. As a society we have rightly judged murder to be wrong.

I look at people who have committed terrible atrocities and I might truly believe that what they have done deserves that they should forfeit their life. The problem though is that ultimately, we as a society use some individual or individuals to do our dirty work for us. Some one has to perform that execution. Sure, there will be all sorts of people prepared to do it but that isn't the point. We send our young people off to war and they so often come back with their lives shattered because of what they have seen and done. Capital punishment just hardens the heart of the executioner and it hardens the hearts of our whole society.

Capital punishment, even if deserved, is wrong for society. It drags us all down.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 11-09-2018 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 01-28-2019 11:43 AM GDR has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16136
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(4)
Message 169 of 223 (847851)
01-28-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by GDR
01-27-2019 11:24 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
GDR writes:

As a society we have rightly judged murder to be wrong.


And you can't affirm the value of human life by killing people.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 11:24 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by GDR, posted 01-28-2019 11:46 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4773
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 170 of 223 (847852)
01-28-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by ringo
01-28-2019 11:43 AM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
ringo writes:

And you can't affirm the value of human life by killing people.

Absolutely. Well put.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 01-28-2019 11:43 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 01-28-2019 3:05 PM GDR has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 223 (847857)
01-28-2019 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by GDR
01-28-2019 11:46 AM


death penalty and value of life
It is the Bible that prescribes the death penalty for murder, as I quote above in Message 164, and it is the Bible that also affirms the high value of human life. If you all can't put those two facts together in one coherent philosophy there is something wrong with your heads.

Hint: It is BECAUSE of the high value God puts on human life as the Image of God that murder is punishable by death.

ABE: And I'll add, NOT putting a murderer to death brings a nation under God's judgment.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by GDR, posted 01-28-2019 11:46 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by GDR, posted 01-28-2019 6:59 PM Faith has responded
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 01-28-2019 7:00 PM Faith has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4773
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 172 of 223 (847878)
01-28-2019 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
01-28-2019 3:05 PM


Re: death penalty and value of life
Faith writes:

It is the Bible that prescribes the death penalty for murder, as I quote above in Message 164, and it is the Bible that also affirms the high value of human life. If you all can't put those two facts together in one coherent philosophy there is something wrong with your heads.


This is simply another example of disregarding Jesus in order to believe in an inerrant Bible.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 01-28-2019 3:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 12:04 AM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 01-31-2019 4:49 AM GDR has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3760
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 173 of 223 (847879)
01-28-2019 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
01-28-2019 3:05 PM


Re: death penalty and value of life
His Infinite LoveTM doesn't seem all that infinite after all.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 01-28-2019 3:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 12:04 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 223 (847882)
01-29-2019 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by GDR
01-28-2019 6:59 PM


Re: death penalty and value of life
Jesus is the God who authored the Bible.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by GDR, posted 01-28-2019 6:59 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 223 (847883)
01-29-2019 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by AZPaul3
01-28-2019 7:00 PM


Re: death penalty and value of life
Certainly does to me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 01-28-2019 7:00 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2019 5:49 PM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 929
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 176 of 223 (847892)
01-29-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
11-08-2018 6:00 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
The taking of an INNOCENT human life is wrong, it's murder; the execution of a murderer is just.

So when a society with the death penalty, executes someone who later evidence shows is innocent, then that person has been murdered, yes ?

In those circumstances, who should be executed for murdering that innocent person ?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 11-08-2018 6:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 3:44 PM vimesey has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 223 (847923)
01-29-2019 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by vimesey
01-29-2019 2:24 AM


death penalty
The taking of an INNOCENT human life is wrong, it's murder; the execution of a murderer is just.

So when a society with the death penalty, executes someone who later evidence shows is innocent, then that person has been murdered, yes ?

It is sad that there can be such miscarriages of justice, and often it is because of corrupt motivations too, or a rush to judgment. But when the legal system makes the decision we don't call it murder. Seems there should be some means of redress in such a case, but it's not murder.

The Bible makes provision for unintended killings also and doesn't treat them as murder.

In those circumstances, who should be executed for murdering that innocent person ?

Nobody because it's not murder.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by vimesey, posted 01-29-2019 2:24 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by vimesey, posted 01-29-2019 3:54 PM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 929
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 178 of 223 (847925)
01-29-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
01-29-2019 3:44 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
I find it hard not to call it murder. We’re human - we’re going to make mistakes - that is 100% inevitable.

As a result, if a country goes for the death penalty, then that decision is going to be taken in the sure and certain knowledge that it will lead to the deaths of innocent people.

The significant majority of the research I have read indicates that the death penalty does not deter capital crimes more than life imprisonment. On that basis, there is no gain to be had from taking a decision which will kill innocent people.

I can’t distinguish that from murder.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 3:44 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 4:07 PM vimesey has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 223 (847928)
01-29-2019 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by vimesey
01-29-2019 3:54 PM


death penalty.
I have no problem making distinctions between mistakes and accidents and murder, and I suspect it's not really all that hard for you either.

Deterrence is not given as justification for the Biblical standard. We should certainly determine with all the best safeguards possible that murder actually was committed by the accused but when that has been determined execution is the just punishment.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by vimesey, posted 01-29-2019 3:54 PM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by vimesey, posted 01-29-2019 4:12 PM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 929
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 180 of 223 (847929)
01-29-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
01-29-2019 4:07 PM


Re: death penalty.
But the decision to have the death penalty is not an accident - that’s a deliberate choice.

The analogy would be an adult giving toddlers some copper wire and access to live electrical sockets. The toddlers will make mistakes and get electrocuted - but the adult will rightly be punished for having taken the decision which will inevitably lead to accidental deaths.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 4:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 4:17 PM vimesey has responded

    
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