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Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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You show a picture of tree rings from 50 BC? Ha. You are defeated. Just out of curiosity, whom do you imagine is defeating whom? Is it God vs Scientists? Truth vs Lies?Reality vs Fantasy? or is it only a poster named creation challenging another poster? We need to define the goalposts and the game rules. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4441 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
How about the KT layer? How about it? You're being a bit too cryptic. Is this a response to something in Message 1020?
Iridium is said to come from deep below the earth, I guess you mean from deep below the surface of the earth, but once again I don't see what this has to do with what I said in Message 1020. Who says it comes from deep within the earth and where did they say it?
and from space...exactly where the waters of the flood came from. The flood waters are fictional. What possible correlations do you think there are between the KT boundary layer (deposited ~65 million years ago) and where the elevated iridium concentration came from and where the fictional water in a fictional flood came from? I can't read your mind, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
How about the KT layer? Iridium is said to come from deep below the earth, and from space...exactly where the waters of the flood came from.
Yabut ... That's in the current state. In the previous state iridium came from unicorn tears.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
We do know all the mountains will be flattened one day by the bible.
Actually, I think that erosion would be more dependable.
The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology.
Perhaps so. So, why not leave past processes up to the people who study these things?
If we accept that there was continents separating and mountain building from science, ...
We do ... at many different times in the past. Maybe you should learn something about it.
... then it had to have occurred somewhere in the framework laid out in Scripture.
I don't remember anything about plate tectonics in any scriptures.
The question becomes, when is the best fit?
Well, obviously, the best fit happens when you can make up whatever you want in an ad hoc manner, and you start to "fit" the facts into your own theory.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
What I want to know from Creationists (Faith in particular) is how they answer the question of no observable genetic bottleneck amongst all living (and dead) creatures. This would naturally be present in the context of a global flood.
Oh, that's easy. They ignore it.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Yes we may refer to the current nature when talking about current things. It exists now.
And when we are talking about the past, it's okay to make stuff up, yes?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I want to know from Creationists (Faith in particular) is how they answer the question of no observable genetic bottleneck amongst all living (and dead) creatures. This would naturally be present in the context of a global flood. I don't know how most creationists answer it, but I've answered it many times this way: What today occurs in a bottleneck is severe genetic depletion and it's pretty obvious so that there may even be no more genetic variability possible for that creature. This is the result of homozygosity, or matching pairs for most or all of the genes that determine the main characteristics of the creature. Homozygosity at a particular gene across a whole population means there is no other variation than that one particular characteristic that can occur for that trait. The simplest example is blue eyes or the homozygous bb which it takes to produce blue eyes. If all members of the population are homozygous for bb then the entire population will be blue eyed and there will be no possibility of any ever being brown eyed if reproduction is confined only to members of that population. Same if it were BB for brown eyes, you'd never get a blue eyed person. The evolutionists claim that "beneficial" mutations occur frequently enough to prevent this situation remaining indefinitely but that's another subject and I doubt it, to put it mildly. ANYWAY, a LOT of genes that have become homozygous for a particular trait in ALL members of a particular population means that there is no variation possible in that gene, it is whatever it is. And that's why the cheetah is endangered, it can't vary it's genes barrying a miraculous mutation or many miraculous mutations. And that makes the animal sujbect to disease that it may not be able to surmount. SO my aregument is that there was so much more genetic diversity on the ark that although the Flood would have brought about a greater percentage of homozygosity in the descendants for many traits there still remained a great number of heterozygous traits even in two breeding animals and in six breeding human beings to produce all the variations we see today. THere would be an increase in homozygosity, yes,, that's what a bottleneck would do, but in a situation of such extravagant genetic diversity as in the animals on the ark, enough diversity would remain so that we wouldn't even notice it as a bottleneck. Since all other creatures died in the Flood and extracting DNA from them for comparison's sake is impossible, I guess we'll never be able to see this in the DNA itself.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Doesn't iridium most often come from meteors? That's why they trace the KT boundary to this big meteor they claim hit the Earth in that supposed time period. I figure what happened is that the meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. Same basic idea, totally different timing and transport system.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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(RAZD, Message 1025: There is also no evidence of a flood topping the White Mountains for the last 9,000 years (see Message 2) because the growth there is not disrupted.)
If the high mountains were pushed up after the flood, why would there be? If pigs could fly is not an argument from factual information. You have not established (a) that there was such a flood, (b) that there was any different nature before the flood, and (c) that significant hyper-fast geological formations occurred after the flood. This makes your argument vacuous and irrelevant, without foundation or reason. This is a science thread, and that means arguments are supposed to be based on facts not fantasy. All you have is fantasy and self delusion. More to the point, the climate shown by the tree rings is consistent with a high altitude, cold, short growing season environment as exists today, and this is one piece of evidence that the mountain peaks did not undergo a sudden massive uplift. There are other in the geology of the mountains that tells us they have been there a loooong time. Oh look, you make a fool of yourself again:
Message 1033 ... the bible. The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology. So it tells you nothing about sudden mountain formation, and this shows it is just you making stuff up out of thin air in order to post a silly vacuous argument with no discernable value.
Message 1030: You show a picture of tree rings from 50 BC? Ha. You are defeated. Says the person who has not made a single valid point yet in this thread. Your failure to understand what is posted, and why, is not winning. You're in an axe fight without an axe. All you are doing is taking pot-shots with some bizarre hope of finding a nick in the thread, but you fail to realize that the real strength of this thread comes not from the details and multitude of ways to measure time, valuable as they are, but from the correlations between them. It is easy to make up ways each measurement system could be in error, but -- as you have found -- not anywhere near so easy to explain the correlations. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : .. Edited by RAZD, : ... Edited by RAZD, : ....by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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Faith writes: This one is funny. The Barberton Sequence at, well, Barberton, outcrops and is not covered by that layer. A magical global fluddie, if it happened, would have covered that, too. It doesn't. Doesn't iridium most often come from meteors? That's why they trace the KT boundary to this big meteor they claim hit the Earth in that supposed time period. I figure what happened is that the meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. Same basic idea, totally different timing and transport system. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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14174dm Member (Idle past 1135 days) Posts: 161 From: Cincinnati OH Joined:
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meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. If the meteor/asteroid with the iridium hit during the flood, the iridium would be mixed into many layers not just the one distinct layer.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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If the meteor/asteroid with the iridium hit during the flood, the iridium would be mixed into many layers not just the one distinct layer.
Assuming the one-year flood scenario, yes. Virtually all layers would have some amount of anomalous iridium. As it is, the iridium layer is a fairly distinct deposit, occurring in what is is essentially an instant in geological time. It is what we call a chrono-stratigraphic unit (deposit), of the same age everywhere in the world.
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creation Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
There may have been ruptured conduits of the deep (founts) that brought stuff UP. Also, maybe some iridium in the waters from above. Who knows?
So..impact in some areas..yes...from above or below? Who knows?
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creation Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
You seem to be telling us that iridium came from other sources also, rather than all just from impacted (from below perhaps in some cases) areas. The evidence mounts.
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creation Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Stop claiming that rings are ...anything at all in the pines. The ONLY rings that matter are the ones beyond 4500 level that you have provided no pics of, no details about and seem to like to avoid.
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