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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1036 of 1498 (842967)
11-11-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1030 by creation
11-11-2018 1:15 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
You show a picture of tree rings from 50 BC? Ha. You are defeated.
Just out of curiosity, whom do you imagine is defeating whom? Is it God vs Scientists? Truth vs Lies?
Reality vs Fantasy?
or is it only a poster named creation challenging another poster? We need to define the goalposts and the game rules.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:15 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1054 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:57 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1037 of 1498 (842969)
11-11-2018 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by creation
11-11-2018 1:20 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
How about the KT layer?
How about it? You're being a bit too cryptic. Is this a response to something in Message 1020?
Iridium is said to come from deep below the earth,
I guess you mean from deep below the surface of the earth, but once again I don't see what this has to do with what I said in Message 1020.
Who says it comes from deep within the earth and where did they say it?
and from space...exactly where the waters of the flood came from.
The flood waters are fictional.
What possible correlations do you think there are between the KT boundary layer (deposited ~65 million years ago) and where the elevated iridium concentration came from and where the fictional water in a fictional flood came from?
I can't read your mind, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:20 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1053 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:55 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1038 of 1498 (842972)
11-11-2018 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by creation
11-11-2018 1:20 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
How about the KT layer? Iridium is said to come from deep below the earth, and from space...exactly where the waters of the flood came from.
Yabut ...
That's in the current state.
In the previous state iridium came from unicorn tears.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:20 PM creation has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1039 of 1498 (842975)
11-11-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by creation
11-11-2018 1:24 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
We do know all the mountains will be flattened one day by the bible.
Actually, I think that erosion would be more dependable.
The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology.
Perhaps so. So, why not leave past processes up to the people who study these things?
If we accept that there was continents separating and mountain building from science, ...
We do ... at many different times in the past.
Maybe you should learn something about it.
... then it had to have occurred somewhere in the framework laid out in Scripture.
I don't remember anything about plate tectonics in any scriptures.
The question becomes, when is the best fit?
Well, obviously, the best fit happens when you can make up whatever you want in an ad hoc manner, and you start to "fit" the facts into your own theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:24 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1052 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:47 AM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1040 of 1498 (842976)
11-11-2018 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1035 by Phat
11-11-2018 2:03 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
What I want to know from Creationists (Faith in particular) is how they answer the question of no observable genetic bottleneck amongst all living (and dead) creatures. This would naturally be present in the context of a global flood.
Oh, that's easy.
They ignore it.

This message is a reply to:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1041 of 1498 (842982)
11-11-2018 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by creation
11-11-2018 1:13 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Yes we may refer to the current nature when talking about current things. It exists now.
And when we are talking about the past, it's okay to make stuff up, yes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:13 PM creation has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1042 of 1498 (843004)
11-11-2018 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1035 by Phat
11-11-2018 2:03 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
What I want to know from Creationists (Faith in particular) is how they answer the question of no observable genetic bottleneck amongst all living (and dead) creatures. This would naturally be present in the context of a global flood.
I don't know how most creationists answer it, but I've answered it many times this way: What today occurs in a bottleneck is severe genetic depletion and it's pretty obvious so that there may even be no more genetic variability possible for that creature. This is the result of homozygosity, or matching pairs for most or all of the genes that determine the main characteristics of the creature. Homozygosity at a particular gene across a whole population means there is no other variation than that one particular characteristic that can occur for that trait. The simplest example is blue eyes or the homozygous bb which it takes to produce blue eyes. If all members of the population are homozygous for bb then the entire population will be blue eyed and there will be no possibility of any ever being brown eyed if reproduction is confined only to members of that population. Same if it were BB for brown eyes, you'd never get a blue eyed person. The evolutionists claim that "beneficial" mutations occur frequently enough to prevent this situation remaining indefinitely but that's another subject and I doubt it, to put it mildly. ANYWAY, a LOT of genes that have become homozygous for a particular trait in ALL members of a particular population means that there is no variation possible in that gene, it is whatever it is. And that's why the cheetah is endangered, it can't vary it's genes barrying a miraculous mutation or many miraculous mutations. And that makes the animal sujbect to disease that it may not be able to surmount.
SO my aregument is that there was so much more genetic diversity on the ark that although the Flood would have brought about a greater percentage of homozygosity in the descendants for many traits there still remained a great number of heterozygous traits even in two breeding animals and in six breeding human beings to produce all the variations we see today. THere would be an increase in homozygosity, yes,, that's what a bottleneck would do, but in a situation of such extravagant genetic diversity as in the animals on the ark, enough diversity would remain so that we wouldn't even notice it as a bottleneck. Since all other creatures died in the Flood and extracting DNA from them for comparison's sake is impossible, I guess we'll never be able to see this in the DNA itself.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1043 of 1498 (843006)
11-11-2018 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1032 by creation
11-11-2018 1:20 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Doesn't iridium most often come from meteors? That's why they trace the KT boundary to this big meteor they claim hit the Earth in that supposed time period. I figure what happened is that the meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. Same basic idea, totally different timing and transport system.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:20 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1045 by Pressie, posted 11-12-2018 4:09 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1046 by 14174dm, posted 11-12-2018 11:01 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1051 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:45 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1066 by Astrophile, posted 11-13-2018 5:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 1044 of 1498 (843007)
11-11-2018 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by creation
11-11-2018 1:11 PM


Fantasy is no argument against facts
(RAZD, Message 1025: There is also no evidence of a flood topping the White Mountains for the last 9,000 years (see Message 2) because the growth there is not disrupted.)
If the high mountains were pushed up after the flood, why would there be?
If pigs could fly is not an argument from factual information.
You have not established (a) that there was such a flood, (b) that there was any different nature before the flood, and (c) that significant hyper-fast geological formations occurred after the flood.
This makes your argument vacuous and irrelevant, without foundation or reason.
This is a science thread, and that means arguments are supposed to be based on facts not fantasy. All you have is fantasy and self delusion.
More to the point, the climate shown by the tree rings is consistent with a high altitude, cold, short growing season environment as exists today, and this is one piece of evidence that the mountain peaks did not undergo a sudden massive uplift. There are other in the geology of the mountains that tells us they have been there a loooong time.
Oh look, you make a fool of yourself again:
Message 1033 ... the bible. The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology.
So it tells you nothing about sudden mountain formation, and this shows it is just you making stuff up out of thin air in order to post a silly vacuous argument with no discernable value.
Message 1030: You show a picture of tree rings from 50 BC? Ha. You are defeated.
Says the person who has not made a single valid point yet in this thread. Your failure to understand what is posted, and why, is not winning. You're in an axe fight without an axe.
All you are doing is taking pot-shots with some bizarre hope of finding a nick in the thread, but you fail to realize that the real strength of this thread comes not from the details and multitude of ways to measure time, valuable as they are, but from the correlations between them. It is easy to make up ways each measurement system could be in error, but -- as you have found -- not anywhere near so easy to explain the correlations.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : ..
Edited by RAZD, : ...
Edited by RAZD, : ....

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:11 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1050 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:40 AM RAZD has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 1045 of 1498 (843041)
11-12-2018 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1043 by Faith
11-11-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Faith writes:
Doesn't iridium most often come from meteors? That's why they trace the KT boundary to this big meteor they claim hit the Earth in that supposed time period. I figure what happened is that the meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. Same basic idea, totally different timing and transport system.
This one is funny. The Barberton Sequence at, well, Barberton, outcrops and is not covered by that layer. A magical global fluddie, if it happened, would have covered that, too. It doesn't.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by Faith, posted 11-11-2018 4:30 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(2)
Message 1046 of 1498 (843051)
11-12-2018 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1043 by Faith
11-11-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event.
If the meteor/asteroid with the iridium hit during the flood, the iridium would be mixed into many layers not just the one distinct layer.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(3)
Message 1047 of 1498 (843110)
11-13-2018 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1046 by 14174dm
11-12-2018 11:01 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
If the meteor/asteroid with the iridium hit during the flood, the iridium would be mixed into many layers not just the one distinct layer.
Assuming the one-year flood scenario, yes. Virtually all layers would have some amount of anomalous iridium.
As it is, the iridium layer is a fairly distinct deposit, occurring in what is is essentially an instant in geological time. It is what we call a chrono-stratigraphic unit (deposit), of the same age everywhere in the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1046 by 14174dm, posted 11-12-2018 11:01 AM 14174dm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1048 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:35 AM edge has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1943 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1048 of 1498 (843125)
11-13-2018 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1047 by edge
11-13-2018 10:52 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
There may have been ruptured conduits of the deep (founts) that brought stuff UP. Also, maybe some iridium in the waters from above. Who knows?
So..impact in some areas..yes...from above or below? Who knows?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1047 by edge, posted 11-13-2018 10:52 AM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2018 5:05 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1943 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1049 of 1498 (843127)
11-13-2018 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1045 by Pressie
11-12-2018 4:09 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
You seem to be telling us that iridium came from other sources also, rather than all just from impacted (from below perhaps in some cases) areas. The evidence mounts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1045 by Pressie, posted 11-12-2018 4:09 AM Pressie has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1943 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1050 of 1498 (843128)
11-13-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1044 by RAZD
11-11-2018 4:34 PM


Re: Fantasy is no argument against facts
Stop claiming that rings are ...anything at all in the pines. The ONLY rings that matter are the ones beyond 4500 level that you have provided no pics of, no details about and seem to like to avoid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1044 by RAZD, posted 11-11-2018 4:34 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1070 by RAZD, posted 11-14-2018 8:07 AM creation has replied

  
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