Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
Astrophile
Member (Idle past 127 days)
Posts: 92
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


(1)
Message 1066 of 1498 (843159)
11-13-2018 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1043 by Faith
11-11-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Doesn't iridium most often come from meteors? That's why they trace the KT boundary to this big meteor they claim hit the Earth in that supposed time period. I figure what happened is that the meteor hit during the Flood and the timing was such that the iridium was carried on that particular layer which was dispersed throughout the world as all the sedimentary layers were being laid down during that event. Same basic idea, totally different timing and transport system.
Technically, the object that hit the Earth at the end of the Cretaceous period was an asteroid (about 10 km in diameter), not a meteor. A meteoroid is an interplanetary body, smaller than an asteroid, in orbit around the Sun. A meteor or fireball is the luminous phenomenon that we see when a meteoroid enters the Earth's atmosphere and burns up. A meteorite is a mass of stone or iron (derived from a meteoroid) that falls to Earth after the appearance of a fireball.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by Faith, posted 11-11-2018 4:30 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1072 by creation, posted 11-14-2018 1:19 PM Astrophile has seen this message but not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1067 of 1498 (843163)
11-13-2018 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1052 by creation
11-13-2018 11:47 AM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
Actually, no possibility you are correct whatsoever as far as the bible goes.
I shall defer to you and the Bible as experts in erosion.
When the mountains get flattened it is sudden, and simultaneous to all the towers on earth falling!
I can't wait!
It also happens when all islands flee away and move out of their place (the continents rejoining swiftly?)..and Jesus returning to earth. Forget your 'erosion' nonsense.
Okay does this happen in a past state, the current state or a state yet to be?
And how do you know?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1052 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:47 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by creation, posted 11-14-2018 1:20 PM edge has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 1068 of 1498 (843168)
11-13-2018 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1058 by creation
11-13-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
Imaginary time, based solely upon assuming the current nature existed doesn't count.
Sure. Let's base it on a "different nature" that we don't know anything about and has no evidence to support it.
There. That's a lot better.
Now it can be based on whatever you want time to be based on, and you can change it whenever you want. The best of all worlds, ... er ... natures...
I dare say that this strikes most people as kind of funny, or maybe pathetic. You really have nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1058 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 12:01 PM creation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1069 by Pressie, posted 11-14-2018 5:35 AM edge has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 1069 of 1498 (843176)
11-14-2018 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1068 by edge
11-13-2018 8:09 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
Yeah, a "different nature" won't help me in trying to predict what we will find underground when we get there.
Science works. There's no "different nature" of formation of rocks. Just the normal natural laws even though those rocks formed a long, long time ago...
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by edge, posted 11-13-2018 8:09 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1074 by creation, posted 11-14-2018 1:26 PM Pressie has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1070 of 1498 (843180)
11-14-2018 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1050 by creation
11-13-2018 11:40 AM


Prometheus evidence vs fantasy, Prometheus 3 fantasy 0
Stop claiming that rings are ...anything at all in the pines. ...
Why?
What have you presented, other than your pathetic delusional assertions about a different nature (which are not scientific evidence of anything other than that you are deluded)?
Nothing.
Curiously that doesn't invalidate the tree rings in the pines, or the ones in the oaks ... the other two dendrochronologies that confirm the validity of the pine rings.
The ONLY rings that matter are the ones beyond 4500 level that you have provided no pics of, no details about and seem to like to avoid.
You asked for photos of the tree rings and I showed you one. Now you complain that it doesn't show the ring 4500 years old.
And yet I have shown you where that can be found, where it exists in one of many trees, where anyone can count the rings and see how many there are, and where they are actual objective empirical evidence of age beyond 4500 years into the past.
You keep raising this as if it were some critical point that challenges the whole thread. It doesn't, it doesn't challenge anything except your ability to understand what real evidence is.
When there is objective empirical evidence we find many sources to show it's validity, many documents by people using these factual artifacts. So I did a little more googling (another 5 minutes of my time doing what you would not bother to do), and I found something that I can add another reference to my revised version of this thread that will emphasize how good the evidence of old age is:
quote:
BOOK OF DAYS TALES, Prometheus Cut Down
On this date in 1964 the oldest known unitary organism, Prometheus, a Great Basin Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva) tree growing near the tree line on Wheeler Peak in eastern Nevada was cut down by a graduate student and United States Forest Service personnel for research purposes. The tree was at least 4862 years old and possibly more than 5000 years. The people involved supposedly did not know of its world-record age before the cutting. ... The name of the tree refers to the mythological figure Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans. The designation WPN-114 was given by the original researcher, Donald Rusk Currey, and refers to the 114th tree sampled by him for his research in Nevada’s White Pine County.
Currey originally aged the tree at, minimally, 4844 years. A few years later, this was increased to 4862 years by Donald Graybill of the University of Arizona’s Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research. However, these ring counts were done via borings on a trunk cross section taken about 2.5 m (8 feet) above the original germination point of the tree, because the innermost rings were missing below that point. Adjusting Graybill’s figure of 4862 by adding in the estimated number of years required to reach this height, plus a correction for the estimated number of missing rings (which are not uncommon in trees growing at the tree line), it is probable that the tree was at least 5000 years old when felled. This makes it the oldest unitary organism ever discovered, exceeding even the Methuselah tree of the White Mountains’ Schulman Grove, in California by two to three hundred years. Methuselah, thankfully, is still alive and its location is kept secret to prevent harm caused by tourism.
Very old trees can be very useful to archeologists and climate historians. Dendochronologists (tree ring experts), use the fact that the widths of tree rings vary year by year, depending on weather conditions during each growing season, to build up chronological linear tree ring profiles (that look something like bar codes). By matching these base profiles with ring patterns on wooden components in buildings from archeological sites, they can determine the age of these structures very precisely — much more accurately than by any other method, such as carbon 14 dating. Climate historians can use those same patterns to track long terms changes in weather. Thus, for research purposes, the older the tree the better.
California Redwood
A tree does not have to be cut down in order to get an accurate ring profile. It is possible to take core samples by boring into the tree and then examining the rings under a microscope. But in the earlier part of the 20th century there were fewer qualms than nowadays about felling a giant old tree. ...
In the 1950s dendrochronologists were making active efforts at finding the oldest living tree species, in order to use the analysis of the rings for various research purposes. Bristlecone pines in the White Mountains of California and elsewhere were found by Edward Schulman to be older than any species yet discovered. This spurred interest in finding very old bristlecones, possibly older than the Methuselah tree, aged by Schulman in 1957 at over 4700 years.
Donald R. Currey was a graduate student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill studying the climate dynamics of the Little Ice Age using dendrochronology techniques. In 1963 he became aware of the bristlecone populations in the Snake Range in general, and on Wheeler Peak in particular. Based on the size, growth rate and growth forms of some of the trees he became convinced that some very old specimens existed on the mountain, cored some of them, and found trees exceeding 3,000 years old. However, Currey was not able to obtain a continuous series of overlapping cores from WPN-114. ...
Edward Schulman
... there are conflicting views over whether at the time of felling, Prometheus was known to be unique in the Wheeler Peak grove. It is reported that Currey and/or the Forest Service personnel who authorized the cutting believed the tree was just one of many large, very old trees in the grove. Others, at least one of whom was involved in the decision-making and tree cutting, believed that the tree was clearly unique obviously older than other trees in the area. ... Currey indicates that he sectioned the tree as much to resolve the question of whether the oldest bristlecones were necessarily confined to California’s White Mountains (as some dendrochronologists had been claiming), as to determine its usefulness in regard to studies of the Little Ice Age.
Whatever the rationale, the tree was cut down and sectioned in August 1964, and several pieces of the sections hauled out to be processed and analyzed, first by Currey, then by others in later years. Sections, or pieces of sections, have ended up in various places, some of which are publicly accessible, including the Great Basin National Park visitor center (Baker, Nevada), the Ely Convention Center (Ely, Nevada), the University of Arizona Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research (Tucson, Arizona), and the US Forest Service’s Institute of Forest Genetics (Placerville, California). You will note that the cross sections of Prometheus that are preserved are quite small for a tree so old. Bristlecone pines live in such marginal zones that they grow very little year by year. ...

So here we have another picture, this time of one of the several sections of Prometheus that have been used to verify the age of this tree.
... The ONLY rings that matter are the ones beyond 4500 level that you have provided no pics of, no details about and seem to like to avoid.
Here's another:
quote:
The Prometheus Story
... Currey had permission from the Forest Service to have the tree cut down. Counting the rings later revealed that Prometheus contained 4,862 growth rings. Due to the harsh conditions these trees grow in, it is likely that a growth ring did not form every year. Therefore, Prometheus was estimated to be 4,900 years old, the oldest known tree of its time. At the time, Prometheus was the oldes tree ever dated, the runner-up being a bristlecone pine in the White Mountains of California. It was only 4,847 years old. It wasn't until 2012 that an older tree was found - another bristlecone in the same area, proved to be 5,065 years old. There is a good chance there are older bristlecone pines that have not yet been dated.
Prometheus slab at the Great Basin Visitors Center.

Done and double done. Because of these articles I can now use 4,862 years for the age of Prometheus instead of the original 4,844 years.
Thanks for improving the details and the accuracy of my posting on the Bristlecone pines in general and Prometheus in particular.
This is the inevitable result of nit-picking comments on objective empirical evidence, as we have seen: answering you has improved the documentation here, and on the Egyptian chronology. Keep going, and you will just dig yourself deeper into a hole you can't explain your way out of.
Message 1056: Not all mountains pushed up in the continental moves were huge.
Irrelevant. Please keep to the facts and not posting your fantasies ...
See Message 1044 for more details on this silly fantasy purported flood argument ... which just gets more laughable with later posts ...
Message 1052 ... as far as the bible goes. When the mountains get flattened it is sudden, and simultaneous to all the towers on earth falling! It also happens when all islands flee away and move out of their place (the continents rejoining swiftly?)..and Jesus returning to earth. ...
I suppose the islands will suddenly evolve legs ... LOL.
It seems that creationists are incapable of supporting arguments with facts, so they try to chip away at the scientific evidence and post imaginary fantasy drivel instead.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : ..
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1050 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:40 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1076 by creation, posted 11-14-2018 1:56 PM RAZD has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1071 of 1498 (843200)
11-14-2018 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1014 by RAZD
11-09-2018 4:57 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Best I can do is say I've argued the case for the absurdity of the OE interpretation of the strata many times and am not up to it again. It's my own observation so although i wish it were shared by others and could be the basis for peer reviewed work it can't be. As long as so many creationists disagree with each other about these things that isn't going to happen. Member Creation thinks all the strata couldn't have been laid down n a year. I'm not going to argue that whole thing again with him.
The rest of your post demonstrates that what you have and all you have, and I've conceded it at least until further notice, is dating calculations. Timing is of course important, but if the basic absurdity of the standard interpretation and the obvious sense of the Floodist interpretation can be shown then the timing is just going to have to be rethought. I can hope but I'm tired and above all I hope Jesus comes back soon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1014 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2018 4:57 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1075 by PaulK, posted 11-14-2018 1:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1072 of 1498 (843201)
11-14-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by Astrophile
11-13-2018 5:46 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Right, so the same things holds true in the mind of science...that the iridium source was space. As I said, they tell us it is found the inner earth or space.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by Astrophile, posted 11-13-2018 5:46 PM Astrophile has seen this message but not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1073 of 1498 (843202)
11-14-2018 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1067 by edge
11-13-2018 6:47 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
In the bible the reasons towers and mountains fall one day is not related to erosion In your religion it may be...inside your head.
About your question as to what nature will exist when this happens in the future...I suspect that the former nature will again exist here then! The clues are the rapid moving of islands (probably the plates and continents also), the leveling of all mountains on the planet suddenly, the changed behavior in animals/instincts (the animals will attack people then, the wicked folks, and the birds will change their old migration patterns and converge on the middle east for a feast). Soon after this we also see wolves and lions and other carnivores staring to eat a new diet, so that means the rapid evolving is probably back again...etc etc!
Edited by creation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by edge, posted 11-13-2018 6:47 PM edge has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1074 of 1498 (843204)
11-14-2018 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1069 by Pressie
11-14-2018 5:35 AM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
Actually, it may! I suspect the inner earth is precious stones and spiritual materials also! I predict that the core is not hot! Etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1069 by Pressie, posted 11-14-2018 5:35 AM Pressie has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 1075 of 1498 (843206)
11-14-2018 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1071 by Faith
11-14-2018 1:12 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
quote:
Best I can do is say I've argued the case for the absurdity of the OE interpretation of the strata many times and am not up to it again.
Because admitting the failures of your arguments would be too much to expect from you.
quote:
Best I can do is say I've argued the case for the absurdity of the OE interpretation of the strata many times and am not up to it again.
Things you’ve made up don’t count as observations, you know.
quote:
The rest of your post demonstrates that what you have and all you have, and I've conceded it at least until further notice, is dating calculations.
We also have the order of the fossil record, erosion between layers - sometimes massive, huge amounts of ancient lava extruded onto dry land, a long history of tectonic disturbances... the evidence goes on and on. Too bad you can’t admit to any of it.
quote:
Timing is of course important, but if the basic absurdity of the standard interpretation and the obvious sense of the Floodist interpretation can be shown then the timing is just going to have to be rethought
And how on earth are you going to manage that ? Claiming that the strata and fossils support the Flood because a ridiculously superficial interpretation of the evidence lets you jump to that conclusion - and attacking anyone who dares look deeper and see the falsehood of your claims hardly does that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1071 by Faith, posted 11-14-2018 1:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1076 of 1498 (843207)
11-14-2018 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1070 by RAZD
11-14-2018 8:07 AM


Re: Prometheus evidence vs fantasy, Prometheus 3 fantasy 0
quote:
Why?
Why? Because in claiming things about rings pre 4500 level, you are in unknown territory as far as what nature existed.
quote:
Curiously that doesn't invalidate the tree rings in the pines, or the ones in the oaks ... the other two dendrochronologies that confirm the validity of the pine rings.
No one wants/needs to invalidate the rings beyond 4500 deep. What you do need to do is show these rings and any details you claim about them, and demonstrate that they were a product of this current nature! Simply picking up other dead tress with rings in the same area does not tell us what nature they grew in! Yet you incessantly offer this as some sort of 'collaboration'.
quote:
You asked for photos of the tree rings and I showed you one. Now you complain that it doesn't show the ring 4500 years old.
Not bad actually. Better than I was able to come up with as far as pics.
Too bad you can't focus on the rings that are older then 4500 though, which relegates the pics to meaninglessness. Then, if you could do that, let's see the precise carbon 14 data on THOSE rings that you try to sluff off on us also!
quote:
And yet I have shown you where that can be found, where it exists in one of many trees, where anyone can count the rings and see how many there are, and where they are actual objective empirical evidence of age beyond 4500 years into the past.
You have not really done that. Is the data on C14 there and specific to the pre 4500 level rings? Where is the close up of the rings that matter, the ones older than 4500? You really thought posting some pic of a the tree that had no specific relation to the old rings helps you?! It proves you really don't know what you are talking about and plead faith alone!
quote:
When there is objective empirical evidence we find many sources to show it's validity, many documents by people using these factual artifacts. So I did a little more googling (another 5 minutes of my time doing what you would not bother to do), and I found something that I can add another reference to my revised version of this thread that will emphasize how good the evidence of old age is:
Ha. All based on the same ONE belief that you can't support.
/quote
On this date in 1964 the oldest known unitary organism, Prometheus, a Great Basin Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva) tree growing near the tree line on Wheeler Peak in eastern Nevada was cut down by a graduate student and United States Forest Service personnel for research purposes. The tree was at least 4862 years old and possibly more than 5000 years. The people involved supposedly did not know of its world-record age before the cutting. ... The name of the tree refers to the mythological figure Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans. The designation WPN-114 was given by the original researcher, Donald Rusk Currey, and refers to the 114th tree sampled by him for his research in Nevada’s White Pine County.[/quote] ?? Named after some god that gave stuff to humans!? Ha. Well, too bad us poor humans can't see the rings you talk about eh? Are they missing or there? What do they look like? What is the exact C14 pattern in THEM? Etc.
quote:
Currey originally aged the tree at, minimally, 4844 years. A few years later, this was increased to 4862 years by Donald Graybill of the University of Arizona’s Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research.
They don't agree on age??
quote:
However, these ring counts were done via borings on a trunk cross section taken about 2.5 m (8 feet) above the original germination point of the tree, because the innermost rings were missing below that point.
Oh, brother, here we go again with the missing rings thnig!!!!!
/quote
Adjusting Graybill’s figure of 4862 by adding in the estimated number of years required to reach this height, plus a correction for the estimated number of missing rings (which are not uncommon in trees growing at the tree line),[/quote] Ha ha ha ha ha. TOTAL same state past based corrections!!!!
quote:
it is probable that the tree was at least 5000 years old when felled. This makes it the oldest unitary organism ever discovered, exceeding even the Methuselah tree of the White Mountains’ Schulman Grove, in California by two to three hundred years. Methuselah, thankfully, is still alive and its location is kept secret to prevent harm caused by tourism.
They disagree on age, then correct it using a few same state past beliefs about what a tree should do....then talk of missing rings, then come up with some new date...and all the while we see NO rings past 4500 on display in the article or your posts!
quote:
Very old trees can be very useful to archeologists and climate historians. Dendochronologists (tree ring experts), use the fact that the widths of tree rings vary year by year, depending on weather conditions during each growing season, to build up chronological linear tree ring profiles (that look something like bar codes). By matching these base profiles with ring patterns on wooden components in buildings from archeological sites, they can determine the age of these structures very precisely —
All assuming the nearby dead trees with the same ring patterns ALSO grew slow in this nature!!!! Ridiculous religion.
We wait. I laugh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by RAZD, posted 11-14-2018 8:07 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1077 by RAZD, posted 11-14-2018 4:23 PM creation has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1077 of 1498 (843212)
11-14-2018 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1076 by creation
11-14-2018 1:56 PM


Re: Prometheus evidence vs fantasy, Prometheus 4 fantasy 0
Why? Because in claiming things about rings pre 4500 level, you are in unknown territory as far as what nature existed.
There is no evidence of things being different earlier than 4,500 years ago. None. Zero. Zilch.
The rings show the same characteristics of annual growth that we see post 4500 years ago.
There is no evidence of things being different earlier than 8,000 years ago. None. Zero. Zilch.
The rings show the same characteristics of annual growth that we see post 8,000 years ago.
The absolute tree ring age correlates with the absolute part of the Egyptian chronology for 17 artifacts, with the earliest being 2827 BCE to 2651 BCE, and Shaw's Chronology gives 2660 BCE. Note that +/-88 years in over 4,700 years of tree ring chronology is an error of +/-1.9%. The error is partly due to the two stage process of using 14C data to convert to dendrochronological calendar age, but it is mostly due to the wiggle of the 14C levels that match these sample data points to several different times.
There is also no mention of a different nature in either Egyptian or Chinese chronicles.
The evidence shows that there was no measurable difference in nature beyond 4500 years ago and thus any argument based on this fantasy is worse than useless.
The scientific consensus from many different fields is that there is little measurable difference between any time in the past and the present, and that - until there is objective empirical evidence otherwise - there is no need to consider any hypothetical change for the purpose of doing scientific research.
You have no objective empirical evidence of any change in nature.
No one wants/needs to invalidate the rings beyond 4500 deep. What you do need to do is show these rings and any details you claim about them, and demonstrate that they were a product of this current nature! Simply picking up other dead tress with rings in the same area does not tell us what nature they grew in! Yet you incessantly offer this as some sort of 'collaboration'.
Nope.
The onus is on you to show objective empirical evidence of a different nature and when it happened, because the evidence in this thread, especially the correlations, validates the tree ring data and the ages they record, while you are a like a lone voice gibbering in the dark.
Not bad actually. Better than I was able to come up with as far as pics.
Too bad you can't focus on the rings that are older then 4500 though, which relegates the pics to meaninglessness. Then, if you could do that, let's see the precise carbon 14 data on THOSE rings that you try to sluff off on us also!
Moving the goal posts again. Typical creationist failed god-of-the-gaps argument.
Too bad that you can't focus on the evidence, while the rest of the world has no problem with it, and the evidence has been validated by several different scientific groups in peer reviewed articles.
You have not really done that. Is the data on C14 there and specific to the pre 4500 level rings? Where is the close up of the rings that matter, the ones older than 4500? You really thought posting some pic of a the tree that had no specific relation to the old rings helps you?! It proves you really don't know what you are talking about and plead faith alone!
Congratulations, your silly nit-picking has now reached the level of sublime ridiculousness ... you want to see C14. The data is documented in peer reviewed scientific articles, and if you want the information then contact the authors. Anyone who doesn't believe the information is there is a fool, idiot or troll.
They don't agree on age??
A scientific review changed the age by 18 years or 0.4%. 4,862 is now the accepted age because the evidence was reviewed twice. This is how science operates, not by wishful delusional thinking, but by review of the evidence.
Oh, brother, here we go again with the missing rings thnig!!!!!
Only you. Other people can follow what is actually written and understand what it means.
quote:
Adjusting Graybill’s figure of 4862 by adding in the estimated number of years required to reach this height, plus a correction for the estimated number of missing rings (which are not uncommon in trees growing at the tree line),
Ha ha ha ha ha. TOTAL same state past based corrections!!!!
Except that I only use the absolute known age from the rings that are there. The tree is obviously older because the early growth rings have been eroded away (look at the picture of the section and you will see there is no center).
Nobody else seems to have trouble understanding this simple fact.
They disagree on age, then correct it using a few same state past beliefs about what a tree should do....then talk of missing rings, then come up with some new date...and all the while we see NO rings past 4500 on display in the article or your posts!
Nope. Not for the actual counted rings that are actual factual objective empirical evidence that is documented in several places and where the actual sections exist to verify those counts by anyone that wants to make a legitimate inquiry.
We wait. I laugh.
Like a fool that gibbers in the darkness of his delusions. The rest of the world ignores this foolish ranting, because the evidence shows (a) it is obviously, blatantly wrong (or misunderstanding), and (b) what he rants about is totally irrelevant and completely fails to address (1) the objective empirical evidence of actual factual age and (2) the correlations.
Or like a troll that thinks he can disrupt a thread, and ends up providing evidence of how vacuous creationist arguments are ... like being in an axe fight without an axe. Or like the Black Knight (Monty Python, Holy Grail}
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by creation, posted 11-14-2018 1:56 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1081 by creation, posted 11-15-2018 7:46 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 1078 of 1498 (843246)
11-15-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1060 by creation
11-13-2018 12:03 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
... Notice no DNA from dinos or the time before the flood? ...
False.
  1. there is no evidence a world covering flood ever occurred,
  2. there is some dino DNA (see below) and
  3. there is plenty of DNA from before 4,500 years ago, which I believe is your arbitrarily chosen fantasy flood time.
quote:
Ancient DNA
... more than 80 million years ago. When in 1995 two further studies reported dinosaur DNA sequences extracted from a Cretaceous egg,[18] it seemed that the field would revolutionize knowledge of the Earth's evolutionary past. ...
Once again you are shooting blanks on a science thread, making unfounded assertions without any basis on objective empirical evidence.
The correlations confirm the age chronology with no evidence of any different nature at some arbitrary chosen but actually unknown time.
This thread is about correlations, not fantasy.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1060 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 12:03 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1079 by edge, posted 11-15-2018 12:45 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1080 by creation, posted 11-15-2018 7:21 PM RAZD has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 1079 of 1498 (843260)
11-15-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by RAZD
11-15-2018 11:20 AM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
Nice link.
I thought it was interesting that the upper limit for DNA preservation is as much at 1.5ma. More importantly, that limit was for 'contemporary sequencing technology'. Is this telling us that fragmentary DNA might linger for a longer period of time? Or that technology may push the limit back even further?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by RAZD, posted 11-15-2018 11:20 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1080 of 1498 (843276)
11-15-2018 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by RAZD
11-15-2018 11:20 AM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
From YOUR link
" The decay kinetics have been measured by accelerated aging experiments further displaying the strong influence of storage temperature and humidity on DNA decay.[28] Nuclear DNA degrades at least twice as fast as mtDNA. As such, early studies that reported recovery of much older DNA, for example from Cretaceous dinosaur remains, may have stemmed from contamination of the sample."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by RAZD, posted 11-15-2018 11:20 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1088 by JonF, posted 11-16-2018 1:06 PM creation has not replied
 Message 1089 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2018 9:04 AM creation has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024