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Author | Topic: Brexit - Should they stay or should they go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Thanks. You did, indeed.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 998 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
In addition to Raab, Vara (Minister of State at the Northern Ireland Office) and McVey (Work and Pensions Secretary) have resigned. Vara went before Raab. The Brexiteers are pulling out. The next question is whether they will try to replace May or just vote down the deal. Yikes. What's the British term for clusterf*%k?
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ringo Member (Idle past 732 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Pressie writes:
They should have done that a century ago. Their only realistic long-term deal that can work is for Britain to abandon Northern Ireland. ABE: Replied to the wrong poster somehow. Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18053 Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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quote: Brexit. Or it should be.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9630 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Diomedes writes: What's the British term for clusterf*%k? Buggers muddle, or more recently, omnishambles.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Pressie Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
I've been watching various live interviews with Nigel on BBC International, Sky and CNN throughout the night (here where I live 2 hours ahead of GMT).
What surprised me was that not even one reporter asked him to comment on the Irish border question. Or maybe it wasn't broadcast. To me that's absolutely criminal from journalists. They pussyfoot around the biggest problem when they ask him questions. Or maybe I missed it. Anyone can refer me to Nigel's recent comments on the Irish border problem? Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 998 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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Or maybe I missed it. Anyone can refer me to Nigel's recent comments on the Irish border problem? I found one recent video on youtube with Nigel commenting on the Irish border. But honestly, he isn't offering any concrete solutions. He is just claiming the administration is using it as an excuse to delay or cancel Brexit. Video is below.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 386 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Farage is just a blow hard wank puppet who is getting increasingly hysterical as the impossibility of his little England dream becomes ever more obvious. I’m sure that not how he sees it, I’m sure that to him it’s all about betrayal and secret plans and whatnot, but there you go.
Anyway this is the most I could find on NI from him. Nigel Farage: My Simple Response To The Irish Border Question - LBC Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8711 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Is it possible/feasible at some time in the future, like right now, to re-visit the Brexit vote?
With all the startled consternation expressed by surprisingly large segments of the public after the original vote and the intransigent political standoff in trying to get the thing planned and operative, is it worth the effort to have a public re-vote on the issue?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 386 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Yes. There was recently a 700,000 strong march through London demanding exactly that. A second referendum on whether to actually go through with what the government has now actually arranged after two years of trying to get some sort of achievable Brexit. Current polls do now show a remain majority. But it’s still pretty even. Those who voted out seem to have hunkered down on their position and a lot of people (mainly leavers but also less interested remainers) are of the ‘just get on with it, we’ve had a vote just do it’ position.
There is a history of EU related referenda being repeated in other countries until the right result is achieved. And the genuine fear is that the disenchanted masses that voted for Brexit because they feel unlistened to will rise up if the result of the last referendum isn’t implemented. There is talk of ‘civil unrest’ and the like. But if all else fails a second referendum is an option and the opposition Labour party may even be edging that way (albeit with a reluctant leadership). I think a second referendum is now the only way out of this shit show. But that’s not to say it won’t cause it’s own problems.
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vimesey Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
I don't buy the civil.unrest thing. I put it at the same level as the Daily Mail's constant references to "fury". I see no fury in my day to day life. I see average people going about their day to day lives with mild indifference and humdrum preoccupation with their lives. They aren't furious about anything in my experience.
I think they're too bored with Brexit to even contemplate a mild outcry, much less civil disobedience or revolt. Of course, if they cancelled "I'm A Celebrity", things might be different.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8711 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I see average people going about their day to day lives with mild indifference and humdrum preoccupation with their lives. They aren't furious about anything in my experience. Ah. Americans then. The vocal minuscule minority get the press since there is nothing else to build a controversy around. Except I would think Brexit would be big thing over there since it is about to take down your government. But then I also thought this last vote here would have been a big thing since that orange weenie is about to take down all of American society. What do I know.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 386 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I am inclined to agree with you based on personal experience. The problem I have is that based on my personal experience of people’s attitudes remain would have won by a landslide. I’m never quite sure these days whether the attitudes I see on a day to day basis, from friends, family, co-workers etc are representative of the country. London voted pretty overwhelmingly to stay. And my interaction with places like Thurrock and Boston (the most pro leave places in the country) are virtually nonexistent. It’s a country divided with people often in social bubbles that make their own view on this subject seem much more prevailing than it actually is.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I think they're too bored with Brexit to even contemplate a mild outcry, much less civil disobedience or revolt. I don't think there'd be civil unrest or anything like that, but I do think a fair few people would see it as a betrayal of democracy and would be driven towards the more angry nationalist populism that's becoming popular in much of Europe these days. I'm too disconnected from British society these days to know how many people we'd be talking about here. One of the eternal problems with democratic legitimacy - Straggler mentioned he lives somewhere that voted overwhelmingly Remain. My home town by contrast, was one of the strongest Leave votes in the country. It's very easy to gain the impression that your opinion is the default because most people you interact with in your daily life agree with you, or keep their mouth shut because they don't want an argument where they're outnumbered. Then attempts to find compromise between the conflicting views in society are easy to paint as a tiny elite ignoring the voice of the people.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 386 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
There is now a deal. Widely derided as shit by remainers and leavers alike. But Theresa May is pushing it as the only deal in town and so are the EU. Will parliament vote in favour (probably not - but fear of the alternatives may be a growing consideration). It’s all very destabilising.
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