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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1156 of 1498 (843927)
11-22-2018 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by creation
11-22-2018 6:28 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
As discussed, science says iridium does come from space and also that is is found deep in the earth. Precisely where flood water came from!
So water came from the core of the earth?
Please document this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:28 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-22-2018 11:27 PM edge has not replied
 Message 1172 by creation, posted 11-24-2018 2:52 PM edge has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 1157 of 1498 (843928)
11-22-2018 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1151 by creation
11-22-2018 6:34 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
None of the applications even deal with the inner earth, only the surface (100 km or whatever) .
Indeed. But you accept the validity of the scientific method of deducing the constitution of the earth below its surface from analysing reflected seismology, even down to the 100km referred to in the article, yes ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:34 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1161 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 11:23 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 1176 by creation, posted 11-24-2018 3:22 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1158 of 1498 (843929)
11-22-2018 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1156 by edge
11-22-2018 10:57 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
So water came from the core of the earth?
Well, and from out beyond where the stars are.....

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by edge, posted 11-22-2018 10:57 PM edge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1159 of 1498 (843930)
11-22-2018 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1152 by creation
11-22-2018 6:41 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
So why should we ever assume patches of high concentrations of Iridium somewhere in the mantle or below when we have no reasons to base that assumption upon?
Why assume they were not there??
Science has no reasons either way.
We don't "assume they were not there."
We have no evidence that they are there in such large concentrations. We have evidence of trace amounts from the Earth. Not the thousands of times larger concentrations we find in K-T boundary layer. And since iridium is not water soluble there is no demonstrable mechanism from your flud to concentrate those trace amounts to those even close to the levels found in the K-T layer.
I have reasons. The fact is it exists and had to come from somewhere.
No. You have wishful thinking and fantasy. Besides we already know where that level of iridium came from.
This has the earmarks of the flood.
No ear, no marks, no flud.
You have NO idea whatsoever even what a fountain of the deep was! Stop with the insane claims you saw stuff pushed out of them!!
Sure we do. We see the things, and what they left over hundreds of millions of years, all over the planet. There are no others in evidence.
Maybe the water came from deeper than they think. As for space...the waters resided out beyond where the stars are that came to earth in the flood. This leaves a lot of room for the water picking up iridium!!!
What happened to "Stop with the insane claims"?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:41 PM creation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1163 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 11:33 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 1160 of 1498 (843941)
11-23-2018 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by creation
11-22-2018 6:41 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
This one is funny.
creation writes:
Why assume they were not there?? Science has no reasons either way. I have reasons. The fact is it exists and had to come from somewhere. It came right at the time of the great extinction. This has the earmarks of the flood.
Yeah, baby. All those platinum group metals. Next time you're gonna tell us that the 3 main lobes of the layered mafic Bushveld Igneous Complex were all poofed into existence as different sedimentary deposits in a magic fluddie.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:41 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1177 by creation, posted 11-24-2018 3:33 PM Pressie has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 1161 of 1498 (843949)
11-23-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1157 by vimesey
11-22-2018 10:57 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Indeed. But you accept the validity of the scientific method of deducing the constitution of the earth below its surface from analysing reflected seismology, even down to the 100km referred to in the article, yes ?
Well, there's also a lot more than reflection seismology to solid earth geophysics. The field of geophysics is very much involved with the composition and properties of all parts of the earth including the core, solid and liquid. When we take into account all of the data, including magnetics, gravity measurement, global seismology and even (to some degree) some surface geology, there's quite a bit we can say about the internal structure of the earth.
For instance, we know that iridium is the second most dense natural element on earth and it would logically partition into the core of the earth during early stages of planet formation along with iron (which is instrumental in forming our magnetic field) and other heavy elements. The trend of increasing iridium content with depth in the earth suggests much higher concentrations in the core also.
However, we have no volcanism other than some isolated (not global) magmatic occurrences, that are probably not directly related to the core. This is what Pressie is telling us in an earlier post. Sure, there are iridium anomalies but they are nothing like the global K-Pg layer.
Furthermore there is no association between geohydrothermal systems and iridium content on a global basis. After all, why would there be water in the core of the earth to transport iridium to the surface in the first place?
With all that we know, an extraterrestrial source is by far the best explanation for the K-Pg layer. Of course, that makes no difference to our "alternate states" YECist. He would rather base his theory on what he does not know rather than what science has actually learned. In my opinion this is all some kind of negative science or sorcery that has become popular with the poorly educated.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by vimesey, posted 11-22-2018 10:57 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by creation, posted 11-24-2018 3:37 PM edge has replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 1162 of 1498 (843950)
11-23-2018 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1152 by creation
11-22-2018 6:41 PM


Iiridium layer during flood
If the iridium was deposited during the Flood then a couple of characteristics would be found.
First the iridium would be mixed throughout the layers of sediment deposited during the flood rather than single thin layer.
Second the iridium would decrease with distance from fountains of the deep.
We see neither of these characteristics so we don’t see evidence of the Flood in the iridium.
Edited by 14174dm, : Clarity of point

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:41 PM creation has replied

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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1163 of 1498 (843952)
11-23-2018 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1159 by AZPaul3
11-22-2018 11:37 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Sure we do. We see the things, and what they left over hundreds of millions of years, all over the planet. There are no others in evidence.
In my opinion, we cannot compare modern or even geological mid-ocean ridge vents with the purported 'fountains of the deep'.
The only comparison is that they are underwater springs (I guess).
Other than that, I don't see any comparison with a hydrothermal vent that would eject water and rocks all over the solar system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by AZPaul3, posted 11-22-2018 11:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2018 2:46 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1164 of 1498 (843954)
11-23-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1162 by 14174dm
11-23-2018 11:25 AM


Re: Iiridium layer during flood
If the iridium was deposited during the Flood then a couple of characteristics would be found.
First the iridium would be mixed throughout the layers of sediment deposited during the flood rather than single thin layer.
Second the iridium would decrease with distance from fountains of the deep.
Exactly. The only caveat is that, even in the K-Pg layer, I understand that the iridium is finely divided in up to 4 very thin laminations in some locations. This is almost certainly due to reworking of a blanket of ash during several seasonal or storm events. Same thing happens with modern volcanic ash deposits.
ABE: This latter fact is something that YECists will try to utilize against the impact hypothesis.
Also, I keep in mind that there were a lot of things going on at about that time in geological history including impacts. The actual extinction 'event' may have a number of causes.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1162 by 14174dm, posted 11-23-2018 11:25 AM 14174dm has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(2)
Message 1165 of 1498 (843972)
11-23-2018 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1152 by creation
11-22-2018 6:41 PM


Evidence of fountain of the deep
You have NO idea whatsoever even what a fountain of the deep was!
So what was a fountain of the deep? What is the evidence of one? Where in the world is an example? Why is the convential geology wrong for that site?
I am thinking that a fountain of the deep would be a fissure of some depth (kilometers scale). A debris field radiating out with progressively finer material with distance. Fractures and sunken areas where vast amounts of water were removed.
What kind of geologic formation would hold and release the water of the Flood?
Creation scientists have had a century or more to answer thses questions. Please educate us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1152 by creation, posted 11-22-2018 6:41 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1181 by creation, posted 11-24-2018 3:45 PM 14174dm has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1166 of 1498 (843977)
11-23-2018 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1163 by edge
11-23-2018 11:33 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
In my opinion, we cannot compare modern or even geological mid-ocean ridge vents with the purported 'fountains of the deep'.
Sure we can ... I think.
For the purposes of gauging iridium concentrations from within the Earth I included any and all fissures, geysers, volcanoes from black smokers to the Deccan Traps and other large igneous provinces. That's the closest I could come to covering everything that might be construed or misconstrued as some fountain of the deep.
The point I think I'm making to creation is that the Earth has spilled its guts out at us over many millions of years all around the planet and all we have ever seen from this stuff is small trace amounts of iridium far to sparse to compare with the concentrations found in the K-T layer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1163 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 11:33 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1167 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 2:56 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1167 of 1498 (843978)
11-23-2018 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1166 by AZPaul3
11-23-2018 2:46 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Sure we can ... I think.
As long as it's in the context of differences, fine.
But for instance, your argument about a multiplicity of ages blowing up the FOD/flood relationship is countered by Faith's argument that "Well, everything happened in one year", so they're all the same age anyway.
Hmmm, am I starting to think like a YEC??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2018 2:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2018 3:11 PM edge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1168 of 1498 (843981)
11-23-2018 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1167 by edge
11-23-2018 2:56 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
your argument about a multiplicity of ages blowing up the FOD/flood relationship
It's not the multiplicity of ages as it is the fact that the stuff that came out, no matter where or when, all had small, if even detectable, levels of iridium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 2:56 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 6:34 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1169 of 1498 (843997)
11-23-2018 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1168 by AZPaul3
11-23-2018 3:11 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
It's not the multiplicity of ages as it is the fact that the stuff that came out, no matter where or when, all had small, if even detectable, levels of iridium.
Details, details ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2018 3:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2018 7:57 PM edge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1170 of 1498 (844000)
11-23-2018 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1169 by edge
11-23-2018 6:34 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Details, details ...
Now you are thinking like a YEC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 6:34 PM edge has not replied

  
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