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Author Topic:   Christianity Needs to Return to Being a Good Example
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3 of 57 (843969)
11-23-2018 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
11-23-2018 11:49 AM


Cant Say That I Disagree With Most Of This
stile writes:

Should Christianity continue to try and force itself on anyone and everyone they can?
Or should Christianity go back to its roots and try to provide a good example and gain whatever social growth is possible that way?

I'd go with the second statement. When I first came to EvC in 2004, I was argumentative because I was fascinated by the idea that people believed so differently than I did and had no need or desire to be "converted" in any way. Having stuck around, I now argue largely out of sport and not for any pressing need to change anyone's mind. (Although I'm tempted to argue with Faith more lately because she sees it as insulting and disrespectful even though she is our most prolific poster and does the same thing to everybody else)

Some interesting quotes are taken from Benjamin Sledges article:

quote:
...it’s too bad the name ‘Christian’ has been tainted so much that the love of God isn’t recognized in the name. Instead, people think ‘republican, homophobe, or bigot’ instead of ‘servant, loving, and gracious.'(...) My friends that aren’t Christians have never tried to force their morality on me, so this is an odd practice in Christendom. (...)What we need to face is that public perception has shifted. We live in post-Christian America where we’re no longer relevant to the culture at large. Whatever influence Christians used to have, much like a parasite trying to reconnect to its host for fear of dying, many Christians are thrashing about trying to create waves and convince people they are relevant within our culture. But sadly, instead of men and women looking like Jesus we sure have a lot of talking heads. We sure have a healthy dose of condemnation in our ranks. We love being “right” instead of the hard task of humility.

Is it any wonder we’re not relevant?


Can't say that I disagree with most of this article.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 11-23-2018 11:49 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Stile, posted 11-23-2018 2:18 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5 of 57 (843974)
11-23-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Stile
11-23-2018 2:18 PM


Re: Cant Say That I Disagree With Most Of This
stile writes:

I may or may not convert, still... but I'd at least be drawn towards it and give it a very serious look as opposed to the obvious "just another group of people who think they know what's best" vibes from the current actions of "religious groups."

And converting isn't (or shouldn't) even be the issue. If the product being sold is Jesus, and if the product becomes attractive to others...they may "buy" the product simply by accepting that Christians are genuine. I enjoy talking to you here at EvC and value our online exchanges. I respect you for being honest as to who you are and what you believe. Accepting Jesus is not a goal in my mind. If He is real in any way, our ongoing conversations and dialogue may reflect this better than any sort of scriptures or hammering home arguments ever could.

And if it turned out that He was not real, what we have left would compensate.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Stile, posted 11-23-2018 2:18 PM Stile has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 10 of 57 (844009)
11-24-2018 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tangle
11-24-2018 3:11 AM


Rituals,Bells & Smells
tangle writes:

The best thing Christianity could do for itself is what it's actually doing - throwing away its more ridiculous beliefs, traditions and prejudices and moderating its rituals.

Growing up Protestant (United Methodist) meant that we had far fewer rituals than do the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and even Lutherans and Episcopalians. I occasionally remember partaking in Holy Communion, but we used grape juice and oyster crackers...which is itself confusing...the idea of the purpose of the ritual was never understood as necessary. Later on, when I chose to attend a Charismatic Evangelical Church, we had all sorts of bizarre rituals...prayer hankies, anointing oils, even a time or two of forced holy laughter...which I saw as amusing yet hardly laughable...it appeared that people were making themselves laugh. Nowadays, the only things that I do which could be considered remotely ritualistic include daily prayers and occasional intermittent fasting...which I do for proven health reasons rather than religious ones. I feel that a prayer is a form of introspection, and I do it to take my mind off of the daily grind and rat race and to focus on who and what I should be versus what I am. I also believe that praying for others is a healthy discipline that helps me to become more empathetic and less greedy and proud.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2018 3:11 AM Tangle has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 11 of 57 (844010)
11-24-2018 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by GDR
11-23-2018 5:39 PM


GDRs Trademark Signature
GDR writes:

Read my signature.

You sure are proud of that trademark that you adopted! I was reading it and thinking about how it applies to me. I ended up with several questions that I ask myself.

quote:
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

So I am commanded to do justice. This seems simple enough...do unto others what you would ask that they do unto you.(me) But it exposes my greed. I expect help from others...more than I feel an unction to help them. I'm not sure why this is...but it is troubling.

Love Kindness--This seems easy enough. I dislike mean people. Oddly enough, I also hate the traits that I myself have...namely greed, envy, and jealousy. Its almost as if I see the world through a microscope yet see myself through a dim telescope.

And to walk humbly with your God.---I certainly like to pray and feel that I need it. I really need God...its just that I'm unsure how I can change...in a way I feel that old age and fighting for my health has humbled me somewhat...but to be honest, it is all rather depressing at times. I feel cheated...as if I should have more...of something. What that is I don't yet know.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by GDR, posted 11-23-2018 5:39 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 11-24-2018 12:31 PM Phat has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 12 of 57 (844011)
11-24-2018 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
11-23-2018 5:50 PM


Conversion Factor
If I recall your story about your conversion, you converted on your own after reading many numerous works of literature. There was nobody that converted you was there? And the whole point of Stiles article is that you can draw people closer through loving them and helping them rather than preaching to them.

What is the duty of a Christian, in your opinion and belief?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-23-2018 5:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 11-24-2018 1:09 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 25 of 57 (844193)
11-26-2018 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Capt Stormfield
11-24-2018 3:24 PM


Conversion From Foot Soldier To Captain
Capt Stormfield writes:

If a majority of Christians started behaving like me, it wouldn't make me want to be a Christian, it would make me wonder why they had been so fucked up for so long.

How is it that you behave? I'm curious...perhaps you can convert me...through humor if nothing else!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Capt Stormfield, posted 11-24-2018 3:24 PM Capt Stormfield has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 26 of 57 (844195)
11-26-2018 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Stile
11-26-2018 9:08 AM


Individuality vs Authoritarian Communion
Stile writes:

Any time anyone provides unsolicited information to others they are forcing themselves onto people.

Hmmmm...
Google Dictionary writes:

un·so·lic·it·ed ˌənsəˈlisidəd
adjective
adjective unsolicited
not asked for; given or done voluntarily.
uninvited unsought unasked-for unrequested

But don't we all give each other information unasked for? In a forum such as this, we post primarily to solicit responses from others, right? Even now as I type this post I am hoping for some replies and comments...arguments, even...some sort of debate...anything to stimulate my bored brain!

Stile writes:

It should not be something associated with religion.

Granted. But this is not a church...its a discussion board. Religion and Politics pop up frequently. To be honest, I enjoy arguments with online friends. ringo is my current favorite...I pick on him incessantly and he usually responds...though I think the Library closes on Saturdays because I never see him post then.

Stile writes:

Gone are the days of forcing your views on others and expecting to be respected simply because some words escaped your mouth.

As far as respect goes, simply replying to me constitutes respect in my mind. It is irrelevant whether we agree or not...as long as we respect each other.

Stile writes:

I also happen to like that a variety of people exist.
I think that if we were all the same... things would get boring and stagnant.

I totally agree!
To be honest, if everyone at EvC became a Christian, I would feel as if I lost something...I value each members individuality more than I do their profession of faith in Jesus Christ. Faith, of course, disagrees.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Stile, posted 11-26-2018 9:08 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Stile, posted 11-27-2018 10:11 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 27 of 57 (844196)
11-26-2018 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
11-23-2018 5:50 PM


And One For The Peanut Gallery
Faith writes:

Missionaries have often gone to foreign countries or remote tribes and stayed quite a while before anyone showed any interest in Christianity. They learn the language, translate the Bible into it, and talk to people about Christ. It is so far from any notion of forcing anything the idea is absurd. In some cases they have no success at all, occasionally the missionaries have been killed, (five young missionaries were killed by the Auca tribe of South America in the fifties just as they landed on their beach. A while later the wives of two of them went to the Auca and lived with them and took the place of their missionary husbands.) Sometimes missionaries were made into soup for a cannibal tribe. But when they do succeed it's by WINNING the people to Christ by persuasion, through preaching and so on.

Of course you would like the idea of leaving everybody to believe as they please but that completely ignores the fact that Christianity is the only way anyone can ever be saved to eternal life and that is the reason for the "great commission" Christ gave us, to take this good news to everyone in the world so that they would have the same opportunity we have had, to be saved from this fallen world into a happy eternity. This idea that we should just be nicey nice and never preach the gospel to anyone is actually a sentence to eternal misery for those we encounter. If we really love people we want the best for them.

OK, let's discuss a hypothetical. Let's say that both you and I were sent to EvC by God to evangelize the community. Years passed. I became more like them while you stayed independent and absolute in your belief that the Bible was literally true even in regards to creationism vs evolutionism.

Tomorrow, the world changes on a dime. A global war breaks out. Fortunes are lost...even here among our online community. Several members may even die.

Would you at that point care more about how everyone was doing or would you at that point care more whether or not all of our members accepted Jesus into their hearts to save them from the coming wrath?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-23-2018 5:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 11-26-2018 6:30 PM Phat has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 30 of 57 (844255)
11-27-2018 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Stile
11-27-2018 10:11 AM


Re: Individuality vs Authoritarian Communion
stile writes:

if the person decides they find the information useful anyway it's okay.

I think that I am more interested in why a person dismisses my information than in why they would or should accept it. Its like I said before...I'm not so concerned if everyone at EvC accepted a Gospel message as I am about why they question and doubt the messages that I have accepted. I don't buy into the traditional Christian assumption that people who don't hear the message are doomed for eternity.

You're not forcing someone to give you attention, you're just hoping to get attention.
Exactly. Occasionally I get somewhat rude with ringo, challenging him as to why he thinks the way he does. He has a thick skin, however, and throw it right back at me harder still. This type of interaction is what makes forums fun. Even though we consciously want and expect people to agree with us, at a deeper level it is somehow more satisfying when they don't.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Stile, posted 11-27-2018 10:11 AM Stile has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 31 of 57 (844273)
11-27-2018 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
11-23-2018 11:49 AM


Missionary: FAIL
God Sheltered Me

That missionary seemingly had an immature innocent sort of all-or-nothing faith. I don't think he was anywhere near ready to convert the natives, but he certainly sped up his own journey to heaven...if that was his final destination.

quote:
NEW DELHI — The young American, paddling his kayak toward a remote Indian island whose people have resisted the outside world for thousands of years, believed God was helping him dodge the authorities.

“God sheltered me and camouflaged me against the coast guard and the navy,” John Allen Chau wrote before he was killed last week on North Sentinel Island.

Indian ships monitor the waters around the island, trying to ensure outsiders do not go near the Sentinelese, who have repeatedly made clear they want to be left alone.

When a young boy tried to hit him with an arrow on his first day on the island, Chau swam back to the fishing boat he had arranged to wait for him offshore. The arrow, he wrote, hit a Bible he was carrying.

“Why did a little kid have to shoot me today?” he wrote in his notes, which he left with the fishermen before swimming back the next morning. “His high-pitched voice still lingers in my head.”
Police say Chau knew that the Sentinelese resisted all contact by outsiders, firing arrows and spears at passing helicopters and killing fishermen who drift onto their shore. His notes, which were reported Thursday in Indian newspapers and confirmed by police, make clear he knew he might be killed.


In a way, I think the guy had a martyr complex. He almost wanted to die in service to God (in his imagination) but in actuality, he was not equipped for the task that he set out to do.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 11-23-2018 11:49 AM Stile has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tangle, posted 11-27-2018 4:49 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 36 of 57 (861605)
08-23-2019 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Stile
11-26-2018 8:59 AM


Re: Good ways and bad ways - just choose the good ways
Faith,to Stile writes:

This idea that we should just be nicey nice and never preach the gospel to anyone is actually a sentence to eternal misery for those we encounter. If we really love people we want the best for them.

Stile writes:

Forcing your beliefs on others is not wanting the best for them - it's wanting the best for you.

Quick question. How many here think that the Apostle Paul "forced his beliefs" on others?

What does the evidence show?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Stile, posted 11-26-2018 8:59 AM Stile has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 08-24-2019 3:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 37 of 57 (861637)
08-24-2019 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Stile
11-28-2018 12:24 PM


Re: Missionary: FAIL??
Being rude and forcing your views on others is bad and wrong, regardless of how logical it may or may not be.

There are many ways to set a good example and allow others to choose to investigate your motives if they desire.

Spread the word using good methods.

I agree. Critics would say, however, that the end justifies the means. If we suffered an economic collapse or another major 9-11 type attack, forcing us into war, the streets would run thick with preachers and society likely would have them arrested. Whether that would further add fuel to the fire in a war of ideologies is uncertain as of yet.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Stile, posted 11-28-2018 12:24 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2019 2:47 PM Phat has replied
 Message 40 by Tangle, posted 08-24-2019 4:00 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 47 by Stile, posted 08-26-2019 8:24 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 41 of 57 (861644)
08-24-2019 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Theodoric
08-24-2019 2:47 PM


Re: Missionary: FAIL??
Theodoric writes:

Two questions. Why and why?

There are still large numbers of believers who are not current zealots because they believe to some extent that society is OK now. If, however, our money were worthless, or our jobs vanished, or our government turned out to be a people who valued things that we abhor, coupled all with a major event we would be preaching. Large enough numbers that there would be martial law. I know these people...thats my evidence. They would be angry and would blame fallen humanity for bringing it all about.

What would you do in such a situation? Simply trust that the government would put Humpty Dumpty back together again? Of course I forget that you have never believed that people needed God. You likely believe that we humans are always capable of logic, reason, and a realization of what needs to be done. And I wouldn't disagree...as a moderate. BUT I would be wary of a fair recovery.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2019 2:47 PM Theodoric has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 08-25-2019 2:28 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 42 of 57 (861645)
08-24-2019 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
08-24-2019 3:25 PM


Re: Good ways and bad ways - just choose the good ways
jar writes:

Paul, if Paul even existed, was incapable of ever forcing beliefs on anyone once he lost the power he had under traditional Judaism.

It figures. You always thought that Jesus should remain a property of Judaism and that the new religion was in effect the problem.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 08-24-2019 3:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 08-24-2019 5:51 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 44 of 57 (861667)
08-25-2019 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by jar
08-24-2019 5:51 PM


Re: Good ways and bad ways - just choose the good ways
jar writes:

As a Pharisee Saul had power, power to actually force and impose things on others under pain of execution.

But Paul of Tarsus had no such power.

And yet the message of Paul of Tarsus exists to this day and is quoted daily around the world. I suppose you would argue that Christianity was spread by people such as Constantine and Robertson and Swaggart. That it was spread by the greedy and political side of human nature.

I would argue that the only reason Pauls message is still read today is because of the power and will of the Holy Spirit. Look at this bit from Acts:

Point being that the reason that Christianity has spread the way that it has is arguably due to a good Spirit(vibe) within humans rather than an ulterior,greedy,power-hungry motivation. The ones who do so out of vain ambition will come to nothing. I will admit that the message is often sold and spread for want of money. We really dont know if Constantine was an instrument of GOD or not....but we *know* that Pat Robertson was used more by the worldly spirit of greed and power than he was used by the Holy Spirit.

And i suppose that if they were judging you and I, the jury would be split also.

I sometimes feel that you cause doubt by challenging people to question whether or not they have God or if they have a bad burrito. Perhaps, however, it is good and wise to be certain rather than to fall prey to charlatans.

And yes, Christianity is about what you *do* rather than simply what you *believe*. My show on facebook is free and always will be. I never plan on asking for money. If they offer me some, I will take it, of course.

As for Christianity, we have discussed what it is, what it should be, the source of it, and the content thereof. I believe as Gamaliel said in Acts--if the motive is of Divine Origin, nothing will ever stop it but it is of human origin, it will fail of its own accord.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 08-24-2019 5:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 08-25-2019 12:47 PM Phat has taken no action

  
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