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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1104 of 1677 (844715)
12-04-2018 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ringo
08-31-2018 6:05 PM


Re: If I'm raptured there will be millions of others raptured too
ringo writes:
If I had a smidgen of an inkling that it was true, I'd sell what I have and give to the poor (Matthew 19:21).
But don't you do that anyway? And what do you think of my progressive revelation theory? I've essentially placed you as more evolved spiritually than are the believers.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by ringo, posted 08-31-2018 6:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by ringo, posted 12-05-2018 2:20 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1114 of 1677 (844846)
12-06-2018 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1092 by ringo
12-03-2018 1:10 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
My reasoning is not that He didn't die. My reasoning is that He didn't rise from the dead. That is sound reasoning because people don't rise from the dead.
Thats what makes someone become a believer---when the known evidence is refuted before their eyes.
In any case, the bottom line is the same: A death that doesn't last is not a significant death.
The story appears to be more symbolic. Symbolism can be significant if accepted. Evidence-based skeptics rarely if ever accept unevidenced claims. I guess I cant really blame you for being an atheist. If you were to ever change, your ideas/beliefs would have to die before new ideas/beliefs could replace them. Significantly.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1092 by ringo, posted 12-03-2018 1:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1118 by ringo, posted 12-07-2018 11:21 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1122 of 1677 (844924)
12-08-2018 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1116 by Tangle
12-06-2018 2:13 PM


Anger Management
Faith thinks that I have a chip on my shoulder lately, and I suspect she is right. Perhaps I need to vent my inner anger. (Disclaimer: I'm not mad at anyone here personally...just positionally. Its what you all say that sparks my fuse. )
I'm mad at Tangle because he is so cocksure that atheism is his best option. He claims that nobody can know any more about the God of the Bible than anyone else...which is technically true but which shows extreme disrespect to those who study, pray, philosophize, and think about such matters while he (Tangle) simply goes fishing and acts like his answers are THE answers.
I'm mad at Faith because she is also hard-headed about her position...she won't change. Perhaps this means I am mad at myself for being so wishy-washy but that it is suppressed. I wish I could be strong about my convictions, but this damn life is unfair in my eyes. I feel cheated by an unfavoring God. Yet I won't throw Him away...to me that would be blasphemous. I'm jealous that Percy actually has a belief and is now beginning to respect and agree with Faiths tenacity, despite her illogic. I was always mad at jar for ripping my faith to shreds as does ringo. The main difference is that jar claims to be a Christian, which I guess makes him less of a threat in my mind than a defiant ringo is...ringo never agrees that God exists whereas jar seems to say so. I do applaud Percy for also believing so...never thought he would...being an evidence-based guy.
I am angry with my church and established traditional religion...as Faith calls it. If God is how they see Him as I am also mad at God...for a variety of reasons. One person whom I really feel at peace with around here is Stile...despite being a nonbeliever, Stile says he is open to reconsideration though he emphasizes personal responsibility over blind obedience...which I respect. It was one of the few things I liked about jars philosophy as well.
Finally, I am mad at myself. For a variety of reasons. I won't go into it all here...except to say that I am frustrated lately.
Heck, I'm even mad at how I wrote this post! I could have gone so much more into detail. Bottom Line: God owes me. And if He doesn't exist, someone sure owes me!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1116 by Tangle, posted 12-06-2018 2:13 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1123 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 11:54 AM Phat has replied
 Message 1124 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-08-2018 1:25 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1125 by Straggler, posted 12-08-2018 2:19 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1126 of 1677 (844940)
12-08-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1123 by Tangle
12-08-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Anger Management
it's irritating when the other guy is right...
You are only right if God does not, in fact, exist and communicate to us that way. Now I'm getting irritated that I have to resort to Faiths argument in order to challenge yours. I think what gets me frustrated is that my beliefs are being challenged by logic and I can't defend them yet won't drop them.
It is forcing me to cut my losses and quit believing or double down and go all in.
I'll likely choose the latter. Seriously, I DO believe that God is real, however.
Perhaps I am angry that He never favors me...what with my impending eye operation (vitrectomy) my worsening health, aging body, and broken promises of a secure retirement. Yes I'm better off than most of the world, but I'm not where I wanted to be. I think my anger goes back to childhood issues also.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1123 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 11:54 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1130 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 4:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1127 of 1677 (844941)
12-08-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1118 by ringo
12-07-2018 11:21 AM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Picture yourself returning to a belief in Santa Claus and the Three Talking Bears.
I don't look at Christianity that immaturely, though I will admit that I often question why God chose to do it with a flood and a human incarnation rather than a more hi-tech way.
I simply look at the fact that we humans have no business trying to define a universe and ignore the logical concept of a Creator/Higher Intelligence Who just happens to care about us. Perhaps I have Daddy issues with the God I imagine.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by ringo, posted 12-07-2018 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1133 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 1:09 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1128 of 1677 (844942)
12-08-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1124 by Tanypteryx
12-08-2018 1:25 PM


Re: Anger Management
If you want more fulfillment in your life, figure out what will make you satisfied and whether you are willing to do what it takes to get there and whether your goal is achievable.
This makes the most sense. Coming from a man like you that has just left the hospital and has more struggles than I currently do adds weight and respect to your comments. Thanks. I hope you DO return to strong health. I need to quit being so selfish and thinking only of my own problems.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1124 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-08-2018 1:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1129 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-08-2018 4:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1134 of 1677 (844967)
12-09-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by ringo
12-09-2018 1:09 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
ringo writes:
He doesn't seem to care about the people of Syria, etc.
God cant simply fix every problem that humans themselves create for themselves. Well..perhaps He can but He won't. You likely will say that if he won't, He is not useful if He ever DID exist...but more likely He does not exist. Which I would then reply: Why should God be useful to humanity? Should it not be the other way around?
You then likely would say that we have to do it ourselves anyway...based on the evidence. Which gets us right back to your classic fallback position that the message is what is important and that like jar suggests, we are charged to live and do the message. So now what? I'm still angry. I am one of the ones who need spare change at this point. I have a $6000.00 eye operation coming up that I cant begin to pay for. I think I'm more angry at myself, though. I knew how to take care of myself yet simply didn't. If I were to be mad at you for anything, I likely would blurt out this question:
How can you claim not to be an atheist? What are you? You obviously are not a believer...except in the message.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 1:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1135 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:21 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1136 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 2:27 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1137 of 1677 (844972)
12-09-2018 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1135 by ringo
12-09-2018 2:21 PM


Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
How can you claim He "cares about us" if He can help and doesn't?
In what ways would He help? Be specific. Lets take the war in Syria...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:34 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1139 of 1677 (844974)
12-09-2018 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1136 by Tangle
12-09-2018 2:27 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Tangle writes:
How could that possibly work?
Being useful to God?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1136 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 2:27 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1144 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 3:53 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1140 of 1677 (844975)
12-09-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1138 by ringo
12-09-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
OK. Of course! He then may as well do that with all the guns everywhere. Then what? The knives become dull? The chainsaws only magically cut trees and not arms and legs? How far would this magic go?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1141 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:45 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1142 of 1677 (844977)
12-09-2018 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1141 by ringo
12-09-2018 2:45 PM


Re: Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
We would become zombies. The whole point of free will is to allow your creation to learn on its own...without intervention. Perhaps you are right. He left us a message and then backed off for a few thousand years to see what we did with it. So far we still have wars, school shootings, and many terrible things that we created. Looks like His experiment is over...now He will return to set things straight, right?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1143 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1145 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 4:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1154 of 1677 (845011)
12-10-2018 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1146 by Tangle
12-09-2018 4:53 PM


Tangles Real World Certainties
Odd word that you use--betting. Do you have an equal confidence level that the universe contains no God? Or do we all have to first arrive at a consensus of what such a Deity would be defined as?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1146 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 4:53 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1156 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2018 12:11 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1157 of 1677 (845023)
12-10-2018 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1156 by Tangle
12-10-2018 12:11 PM


Re: Tangles Real World Certainties
First we have to decide if there ever could be a common imagination.
Genesis 11:1-9 describes such a common imagination.
We likely would never agree on the characteristics. Our imaginations are scattered and varied. Do you imagine the possibility of a Higher Intelligence, however? Even if it were simply Aliens?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2018 12:11 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2018 12:21 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1159 by ringo, posted 12-10-2018 12:29 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1160 of 1677 (845033)
12-10-2018 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1159 by ringo
12-10-2018 12:29 PM


Re: Tangles Real World Certainties
Gen 11:6 writes:
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have inagined to do. KJV
Essentially they all agreed. They all had a common plan. For some reason, being in unity without including God in the plan (or imagination) was a no-no. You and I argue about this trait today. People can choose to ignore God individually...that's between them and reality. Problems arise when they do so collectively. That's why there is a fight to preserve freedom of religion collectively vs freedom from religion collectively.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by ringo, posted 12-10-2018 12:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by ringo, posted 12-11-2018 10:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1161 of 1677 (845046)
12-11-2018 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1158 by Tangle
12-10-2018 12:21 PM


Re: Tangles Real World Certainties
phat writes:
Do you imagine the possibility of a Higher Intelligence, however? Even if it were simply Aliens?
Tangle writes:
No, I don't imagine that. If I *did* want that, I'd read science fiction.
Too arrogant. You have a belief and opinion just as I do. You cannot make such a statement and have it taken seriously. You do not know that belief is science fiction. Granted you have a sound argument otherwise...until you overextend your intelligence and declare it settled.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1158 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2018 12:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Tangle, posted 12-11-2018 7:46 AM Phat has replied

  
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