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Author | Topic: We must believe in what we're made for | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
I've touched on this topic here and there already.
But I recently came across some research that seems to support the idea. The idea: In order to be happy, people need to figure out what they "should" believe in... how they "should" think... and support that method in their lifestyle. Process: Examples: We should be embracing our differences in beliefs and allow others to do so accordingly (as long as we're talking about "beliefs.") Along the lines of people speaking different languages or engaging in different traditions/cultures. We need to do what makes us happy in order to be happy, and allow others to do their things to make themselves happy. Here's the article: The article identifies that the "religious" and the "nones" are very broad groups. Most previous studies have been "religious" vs. "nones" and indicate that the religious are generally happier. These studies suggest that "dedicated atheists" are equally happy as "dedicated religious" believers.
And how do you have a "strong" belief? You follow the process I mentioned above. When you align your lifestyle with the way you think/feel you should be living - it results in a stronger belief that you're "on the right path" and leads to happiness. For Faith and Belief - or anywhere else if you think it's better suited
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread copied here from the We must believe in what we're made for thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
Although this could arguably be more scientific than faith-based. What does everyone think? Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 15931 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
So are you essentially saying that We each individually *should* be comfortable with our beliefs? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 6626 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 3.1 |
Another philosophical excuse to believe fairytales. Because they “make you happy”.
Unless a “belief” is backed by the reality of the universe we can see and reasonably extrapolate then it is not worth holding whether it makes you happy or not. Living a lie, knowing it’s a lie, is quite foolish in its own right but to say it’s ok because it makes one happy is treason to the human intellect. But then I'm happy with my own beliefs so it's ok.
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
Not essentially, no. I'm not saying that we should be aiming to be comfortable with our beliefs. Once we examine our beliefs on an independent level - and ensure we are believing in beliefs we actually, personally, truly believe in...
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
Yes. It's certainly better than believing in fairytales in order to force other people to do anything they wouldn't normally do. What's wrong with being happy? If so - don't you wish other people could be happy too?
Is that so? I think being happy is a rather decent and important goal for any life. Remember my first caveat - "as long as they're not hurting anyone." If someone wanted to believe in something, and wanted to ensure others believed in the same thing, and prevent (say) scientific advancement in order to "make room for their belief" (or other such bullshit)... then this is certainly "hurting someone." Not only should it not be allowed, it should be fought against. But... "as long as they're not hurting anyone..." why not let them be happy?
I don't think "lie" is a useful term in talking about all beliefs. We know it's not true. Planes have accidents. Things happen to people in public. Travelling incurs it's own possibilities for danger. It can be foolish to believe in such a thing - if you start convincing the traveler to forego safety checks because you have faith in your belief. What if someone needs the comforting part? That doesn't seem to be so much "treason to the human intellect."
Exactly. Edited by Stile, : Re-wrote If so/If not in first section - earlier version was confusing and wrong.
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GDR Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
Also, I hope that life is more than about not hurting anyone. I suggest that our own contentment should come from helping to facilitate and increase the contentment in the life of others. My observation is that if life is all about not hurting others, then I suggest it is unlikely that we will find contentment ourselves. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
I see your point. And it makes sense.
I do too. My point would be that this is something you and I happen to agree upon, and nothing more. One good thing from my view in allowing others to figure themselves out - I also have a great foundation to demand my own right to figure my own idea of what "something more" should be (love and helping others) without being a hypocrite. In general terms, it's not right for someone to demand they're able to do things the way they want, and also suggest that others should be doing things their way as well. If their way is "so good" others will see it and come around anyway.
I think wording here is very important. 1. To suggest that others should do something to enhance their lives just because it works for us misses the point that different people can have different desires and/or goals. 2. To suggest that others could attempt doing something to enhance their lives because it works for us if they are looking to us for advice seems fine.
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GDR Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
I agree that we shouldn't be instructing others as towards what I think. I do however think that actually leading a life based on not hurting someone else isn't likely achievable anyway. It seems to me that our goal should be to leave this life with the world being a better place for the fact that we were here. Living a life based on doing no harm to others will cause us to wind up with a life that is self indulgent. I contend that it is better to lead a life based on the golden rule. That I contend is much more likely to lead to a life of contentment or happiness. Statistics that I have seen actually support this view. However I would also contend that if you are only acting altruistically to make yourself feel better about yourself it won't work. The hope is that you find joy in the joy of others as well as your own. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
Quite possible, yes. Are you saying it's impossible for a person to exist that is happier being self indulgent than helping others? I've met many selfish people. Some very selfish, some just a bit. Isn't it possible that a single one of these people actually is happier being selfish instead of helping others? If so - then I think they should be selfish. And, again, that's why I think they should all undergo self-reflection to see what's good or not good for themselves. Of course, if they do the self-reflection and see no issues with their selfishness at all - if being self-indulgent really does make them happy and content.
I agree. The idea isn't about what anyone thinks is "better" it's about what is helpful for each individual to be happy. Maybe it does - but the way to find out is for everyone to go through self-reflection and find out on their own. Not for GDR or Stile or anyone else to say "hey, you should do things this way!"
I agree. But, of course, individual people are not statistics. And statistics are never 100% anything. Again... through self-reflection and identification of their own, personal feelings/beliefs.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 6626 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 3.1 |
I was speaking of a world view not some momentary hope.
There is nothing wrong with being happy in an errant world view, like believing in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, when one is 5 years old. It does help, I believe, in making the synaptic connections more varied than without such a wondrous fantasy. And for those with the intellectual capacity of a 5 year old such fantasies can help keep them controlled and productive. But, as an adult, such fantasies, unless recognized as nothing more than feel-good fantasies, are dangerous. They, as we have seen so often in our history, lead to wrong ideas, wrong analyses, wrong decisions. One might think they are happy in their false fantasy world but they cannot remain that way when reality slaps 'em in the head as it will do quite often. So much cognitive dissonance cannot make for a happy camper. Just take some of the folks around here. How happy can they really be when everyone is constantly telling them their favorite flood of 10K years ago didn't happen? Or that snakes never had a capacity to talk or that Earth really isn't the center of the universe. Human societies have been steeped in fantasy world views for millennia and it has caused this species no end of disappointment, heartache and misery. Believing in some fantasy world view just because it makes one feel (momentarily) happy is to leave ones cognitive ability on the stoop while trying to engage the rest of the real world. Humans don't need any more excuses to be stupid. It's time to change that.
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GDR Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
I've only got a minute so I'll just give a quick reply. I'm not saying that all altruistic people are happier that selfish people but I do believe that selfish people would be more content if they became altruistic.
The problem again though is the motive for being altruistic. If it is for some kind of reward whether it be for recognition, or even if you think it will get you on the right side of God, it isn't really altruistic. I have seen studies where it shows that altruistic people are happier than non-altruistic people but that isn't conclusive. Of course this is subjective but interesting. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
And, if they are recognized as feel-good fantasies, they can be very helpful to the individual.
This is exactly my point. Each individual should undergo self-reflection and monitor their reactions according to their held beliefs. I'm just saying that such things are up to each individual to do honestly on their own.
I don't know how happy they really can be. Only they do.
I have provided evidence that speaks to the contrary. The link in the first post shows evidence that the content of the belief (fantasy or not) can be irrelevant to being happy. And a happy person may very well have a better ability to engage the rest of the world than an unhappy person. I think it's time to understand that different people can have different beliefs. And, as long as they're not hurting anyone else, such beliefs should be respected in the sense that no one should care what others believe for their own personal benefit.
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Stile Member Posts: 4065 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
Understood. My point is the next step from this. What to do about it? Should you and I just tell everyone to be a certain way? That's why I propose my system: Honest self-reflection and review. This way, if you and I are right and altruistic people are actually happier than selfish people - then everyone will become an altruistic person as they follow their honest evaluation.
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GDR Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 5410 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
I am sorry I missed replying to this post. It was oversight as I became involved in too many threads.
Stile wrote This way, if you and I are right and altruistic people are actually happier than selfish people - then everyone will become an altruistic person as they follow their honest evaluation. I do not agree with the last statement in general. We are all selfish to varying degrees but if self love or gratification becomes our primary focus it is something that feeds on itself, and our personal lusts whatever they are can never be satisfied. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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