|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
it's irritating when the other guy is right...
You are only right if God does not, in fact, exist and communicate to us that way. Now I'm getting irritated that I have to resort to Faiths argument in order to challenge yours. I think what gets me frustrated is that my beliefs are being challenged by logic and I can't defend them yet won't drop them. It is forcing me to cut my losses and quit believing or double down and go all in. I'll likely choose the latter. Seriously, I DO believe that God is real, however. Perhaps I am angry that He never favors me...what with my impending eye operation (vitrectomy) my worsening health, aging body, and broken promises of a secure retirement. Yes I'm better off than most of the world, but I'm not where I wanted to be. I think my anger goes back to childhood issues also. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Picture yourself returning to a belief in Santa Claus and the Three Talking Bears.
I don't look at Christianity that immaturely, though I will admit that I often question why God chose to do it with a flood and a human incarnation rather than a more hi-tech way. I simply look at the fact that we humans have no business trying to define a universe and ignore the logical concept of a Creator/Higher Intelligence Who just happens to care about us. Perhaps I have Daddy issues with the God I imagine.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If you want more fulfillment in your life, figure out what will make you satisfied and whether you are willing to do what it takes to get there and whether your goal is achievable.
This makes the most sense. Coming from a man like you that has just left the hospital and has more struggles than I currently do adds weight and respect to your comments. Thanks. I hope you DO return to strong health. I need to quit being so selfish and thinking only of my own problems. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9 |
Thanks. I hope you DO return to strong health. Thanks!
I need to quit being so selfish and thinking only of my own problems. Maybe think of your "problems" as guides that outline what is needed and feasible to make them less problematic. In my experience life is not just your job or just your barriers. Life about the journey to fulfillment and rewards rather than the destination. If the journey isn't challenging then the destination will seem empty. For me, the images I'm most pleased with are the ones that were the most challenging.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
GDR writes: You are only right if God does not, in fact, exist Nope, it only matters if god exists and he turns out to be out and out arsehole of the OT. And let's face it, if he is, we're all fucked. If he's something approximating to GDR's god, so long as we lead a decent life we're all fine.
Perhaps I am angry that He never favors me... Ah yes the ancient lie, Allah will provide. Every religion everwhere. Yet children still starve, the old die lonely, illness thrives. The only improvements to our lives are man made.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nope, it only matters if god exists and he turns out to be out and out arsehole of the OT. And let's face it, if he is, we're all fucked. If that were the case as so many atheists think of Him, the world would long since have blown to smithereens and we wouldn't be here to talk about it. Or probably would never have been created, because that was an act of love.
Ah yes the ancient lie, Allah will provide. Every religion everwhere. Weird how what is true of Christianity alone is always being imputed to other religions which are nothing like Christianity. I don't think Allah is ever spoken of in terms of his providence, only the God of the Bible is -- both benevolent providences and "frowning" providences are recognized. And for that matter the whole idea of faith itself only makes sense within the context of Biblical Christianity where we are called to believe many promises about God's nature and our future, requiring us to depend on God through our faith in those things. Nothing like that exists in any other religion but unbelievers just love to pretend it's all the same. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: If that were the case as so many atheists think of Him, the world would long since have blown to smithereens and we wouldn't be here to talk about it. Or probably would never have been created, because that was an act of love. Well according to your belief, your god DID obliterate us all at least once. But I agree, it's absurd, no such god exists so it'll be fine.
Weird how what is true of Christianity alone is always being imputed to other religions which are nothing like Christianity. Given that religions are the universal comforter, it's not remotely surprising that they all say 'don't worry, muumy will look after you,.
I don't think Allah is ever spoken of in terms of his providence, Then you're just plain wrong. Who'd have thought that could happen?
quote: quote: only the God of the Bible is -- both benevolent providences and "frowning" providences are recognized. And for that matter the whole idea of faith itself only makes sense within the context of Biblical Christianity where we are called to believe many promises about God's nature and our future, requiring us to depend on God through our faith in those things. Nothing like that exists in any other religion but unbelievers just love to pretend it's all the same. Turns out you're wrong again ma'am Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why not? What's the difference?
ringo writes:
I don't look at Christianity that immaturely.... Picture yourself returning to a belief in Santa Claus and the Three Talking Bears. Phat writes:
If we don't define it, who will?
I simply look at the fact that we humans have no business trying to define a universe... Phat writes:
He doesn't seem to care about the people of Syria, etc. ... and ignore the logical concept of a Creator/Higher Intelligence Who just happens to care about us.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: God cant simply fix every problem that humans themselves create for themselves. Well..perhaps He can but He won't. You likely will say that if he won't, He is not useful if He ever DID exist...but more likely He does not exist. Which I would then reply: Why should God be useful to humanity? Should it not be the other way around? He doesn't seem to care about the people of Syria, etc. You then likely would say that we have to do it ourselves anyway...based on the evidence. Which gets us right back to your classic fallback position that the message is what is important and that like jar suggests, we are charged to live and do the message. So now what? I'm still angry. I am one of the ones who need spare change at this point. I have a $6000.00 eye operation coming up that I cant begin to pay for. I think I'm more angry at myself, though. I knew how to take care of myself yet simply didn't. If I were to be mad at you for anything, I likely would blurt out this question:How can you claim not to be an atheist? What are you? You obviously are not a believer...except in the message. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can you claim He "cares about us" if He can help and doesn't?
God cant simply fix every problem that humans themselves create for themselves. Phat writes:
If he isn't useful, what difference does it make if He exists? We might as well just ignore Him.
Why should God be useful to humanity? Phat writes:
What "use" would we be to an omnipotent God?
Should it not be the other way around? Phat writes:
I don't self-identify as an atheist. I know that some people use "lack of belief" as a definition but I don't think it's adequate to define me. I could possibly be a deist but I don't really understand that position.
How can you claim not to be an atheist? Phat writes:
And you don't seem to believe in the message. You obviously are not a believer...except in the message.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: Why should God be useful to humanity? In the same why as any father would be useful to his son? Particulary one that claims to love them.
Should it not be the other way around? How could that possibly work? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
How can you claim He "cares about us" if He can help and doesn't? In what ways would He help? Be specific. Lets take the war in Syria...Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He could make all the guns stop working. In what ways would He help? Be specific. Lets take the war in Syria...And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: Being useful to God? How could that possibly work?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK. Of course! He then may as well do that with all the guns everywhere. Then what? The knives become dull? The chainsaws only magically cut trees and not arms and legs? How far would this magic go?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024