Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1126 of 1677 (844940)
12-08-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1123 by Tangle
12-08-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Anger Management
it's irritating when the other guy is right...
You are only right if God does not, in fact, exist and communicate to us that way. Now I'm getting irritated that I have to resort to Faiths argument in order to challenge yours. I think what gets me frustrated is that my beliefs are being challenged by logic and I can't defend them yet won't drop them.
It is forcing me to cut my losses and quit believing or double down and go all in.
I'll likely choose the latter. Seriously, I DO believe that God is real, however.
Perhaps I am angry that He never favors me...what with my impending eye operation (vitrectomy) my worsening health, aging body, and broken promises of a secure retirement. Yes I'm better off than most of the world, but I'm not where I wanted to be. I think my anger goes back to childhood issues also.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1123 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 11:54 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1130 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 4:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1127 of 1677 (844941)
12-08-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1118 by ringo
12-07-2018 11:21 AM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Picture yourself returning to a belief in Santa Claus and the Three Talking Bears.
I don't look at Christianity that immaturely, though I will admit that I often question why God chose to do it with a flood and a human incarnation rather than a more hi-tech way.
I simply look at the fact that we humans have no business trying to define a universe and ignore the logical concept of a Creator/Higher Intelligence Who just happens to care about us. Perhaps I have Daddy issues with the God I imagine.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by ringo, posted 12-07-2018 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1133 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 1:09 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1128 of 1677 (844942)
12-08-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1124 by Tanypteryx
12-08-2018 1:25 PM


Re: Anger Management
If you want more fulfillment in your life, figure out what will make you satisfied and whether you are willing to do what it takes to get there and whether your goal is achievable.
This makes the most sense. Coming from a man like you that has just left the hospital and has more struggles than I currently do adds weight and respect to your comments. Thanks. I hope you DO return to strong health. I need to quit being so selfish and thinking only of my own problems.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1124 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-08-2018 1:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1129 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-08-2018 4:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1129 of 1677 (844943)
12-08-2018 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1128 by Phat
12-08-2018 4:27 PM


Re: Anger Management
Thanks. I hope you DO return to strong health.
Thanks!
I need to quit being so selfish and thinking only of my own problems.
Maybe think of your "problems" as guides that outline what is needed and feasible to make them less problematic.
In my experience life is not just your job or just your barriers. Life about the journey to fulfillment and rewards rather than the destination. If the journey isn't challenging then the destination will seem empty.
For me, the images I'm most pleased with are the ones that were the most challenging.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1128 by Phat, posted 12-08-2018 4:27 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1130 of 1677 (844944)
12-08-2018 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1126 by Phat
12-08-2018 4:22 PM


Re: Anger Management
GDR writes:
You are only right if God does not, in fact, exist
Nope, it only matters if god exists and he turns out to be out and out arsehole of the OT. And let's face it, if he is, we're all fucked.
If he's something approximating to GDR's god, so long as we lead a decent life we're all fine.
Perhaps I am angry that He never favors me...
Ah yes the ancient lie, Allah will provide. Every religion everwhere. Yet children still starve, the old die lonely, illness thrives. The only improvements to our lives are man made.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by Phat, posted 12-08-2018 4:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by Faith, posted 12-09-2018 4:58 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1131 of 1677 (844945)
12-09-2018 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1130 by Tangle
12-08-2018 4:56 PM


Re: Anger Management
Nope, it only matters if god exists and he turns out to be out and out arsehole of the OT. And let's face it, if he is, we're all fucked.
If that were the case as so many atheists think of Him, the world would long since have blown to smithereens and we wouldn't be here to talk about it. Or probably would never have been created, because that was an act of love.
Ah yes the ancient lie, Allah will provide. Every religion everwhere.
Weird how what is true of Christianity alone is always being imputed to other religions which are nothing like Christianity. I don't think Allah is ever spoken of in terms of his providence, only the God of the Bible is -- both benevolent providences and "frowning" providences are recognized. And for that matter the whole idea of faith itself only makes sense within the context of Biblical Christianity where we are called to believe many promises about God's nature and our future, requiring us to depend on God through our faith in those things. Nothing like that exists in any other religion but unbelievers just love to pretend it's all the same.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2018 4:56 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1132 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 4:11 AM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1132 of 1677 (844960)
12-09-2018 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Faith
12-09-2018 4:58 AM


Re: Anger Management
Faith writes:
If that were the case as so many atheists think of Him, the world would long since have blown to smithereens and we wouldn't be here to talk about it. Or probably would never have been created, because that was an act of love.
Well according to your belief, your god DID obliterate us all at least once. But I agree, it's absurd, no such god exists so it'll be fine.
Weird how what is true of Christianity alone is always being imputed to other religions which are nothing like Christianity.
Given that religions are the universal comforter, it's not remotely surprising that they all say 'don't worry, muumy will look after you,.
I don't think Allah is ever spoken of in terms of his providence,
Then you're just plain wrong. Who'd have thought that could happen?
quote:
Umar said, I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, ‘If you were to rely on Allah as He should be relied on, He would provide for you as He provides for the birds. They go out early in the morning hungry and return in the evening full.’
quote:
And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).
And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine.
[al-Talaq 65:2-3]
only the God of the Bible is -- both benevolent providences and "frowning" providences are recognized. And for that matter the whole idea of faith itself only makes sense within the context of Biblical Christianity where we are called to believe many promises about God's nature and our future, requiring us to depend on God through our faith in those things. Nothing like that exists in any other religion but unbelievers just love to pretend it's all the same.
Turns out you're wrong again ma'am
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Faith, posted 12-09-2018 4:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1148 by Faith, posted 12-09-2018 5:27 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1133 of 1677 (844966)
12-09-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1127 by Phat
12-08-2018 4:25 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Picture yourself returning to a belief in Santa Claus and the Three Talking Bears.
I don't look at Christianity that immaturely....
Why not? What's the difference?
Phat writes:
I simply look at the fact that we humans have no business trying to define a universe...
If we don't define it, who will?
Phat writes:
... and ignore the logical concept of a Creator/Higher Intelligence Who just happens to care about us.
He doesn't seem to care about the people of Syria, etc.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1127 by Phat, posted 12-08-2018 4:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1134 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:06 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1134 of 1677 (844967)
12-09-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by ringo
12-09-2018 1:09 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
ringo writes:
He doesn't seem to care about the people of Syria, etc.
God cant simply fix every problem that humans themselves create for themselves. Well..perhaps He can but He won't. You likely will say that if he won't, He is not useful if He ever DID exist...but more likely He does not exist. Which I would then reply: Why should God be useful to humanity? Should it not be the other way around?
You then likely would say that we have to do it ourselves anyway...based on the evidence. Which gets us right back to your classic fallback position that the message is what is important and that like jar suggests, we are charged to live and do the message. So now what? I'm still angry. I am one of the ones who need spare change at this point. I have a $6000.00 eye operation coming up that I cant begin to pay for. I think I'm more angry at myself, though. I knew how to take care of myself yet simply didn't. If I were to be mad at you for anything, I likely would blurt out this question:
How can you claim not to be an atheist? What are you? You obviously are not a believer...except in the message.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 1:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1135 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:21 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1136 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 2:27 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1135 of 1677 (844969)
12-09-2018 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Phat
12-09-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
God cant simply fix every problem that humans themselves create for themselves.
How can you claim He "cares about us" if He can help and doesn't?
Phat writes:
Why should God be useful to humanity?
If he isn't useful, what difference does it make if He exists? We might as well just ignore Him.
Phat writes:
Should it not be the other way around?
What "use" would we be to an omnipotent God?
Phat writes:
How can you claim not to be an atheist?
I don't self-identify as an atheist. I know that some people use "lack of belief" as a definition but I don't think it's adequate to define me. I could possibly be a deist but I don't really understand that position.
Phat writes:
You obviously are not a believer...except in the message.
And you don't seem to believe in the message.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1137 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:32 PM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1136 of 1677 (844971)
12-09-2018 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Phat
12-09-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
Why should God be useful to humanity?
In the same why as any father would be useful to his son? Particulary one that claims to love them.
Should it not be the other way around?
How could that possibly work?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:35 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1137 of 1677 (844972)
12-09-2018 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1135 by ringo
12-09-2018 2:21 PM


Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
How can you claim He "cares about us" if He can help and doesn't?
In what ways would He help? Be specific. Lets take the war in Syria...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:34 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1138 of 1677 (844973)
12-09-2018 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1137 by Phat
12-09-2018 2:32 PM


Re: Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
Phat writes:
In what ways would He help? Be specific. Lets take the war in Syria...
He could make all the guns stop working.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1137 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1140 by Phat, posted 12-09-2018 2:36 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1139 of 1677 (844974)
12-09-2018 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1136 by Tangle
12-09-2018 2:27 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Tangle writes:
How could that possibly work?
Being useful to God?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1136 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 2:27 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1144 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2018 3:53 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1140 of 1677 (844975)
12-09-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1138 by ringo
12-09-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Ringo Will Explain How God Would Hypothetically Intervene
OK. Of course! He then may as well do that with all the guns everywhere. Then what? The knives become dull? The chainsaws only magically cut trees and not arms and legs? How far would this magic go?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1141 by ringo, posted 12-09-2018 2:45 PM Phat has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024