Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1168 of 1677 (845066)
12-11-2018 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1167 by Phat
12-11-2018 10:57 AM


Re: Tangles Real World Certainties
Phat writes:
I interpret it differently.
Yours is not an interpretation. It's a fiction. What you're saying is not in the story.
Phat writes:
God by definition could never be afraid of anything...
In the story He was afraid - so your definition must be wrong. He was also afraid in the Garden of Eden that Adam and Eve might eat from the Tree of Life.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by Phat, posted 12-11-2018 10:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by Phat, posted 12-11-2018 12:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1170 of 1677 (845069)
12-11-2018 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1169 by Phat
12-11-2018 12:10 PM


Re: Tangles Real World Certainties
Phat writes:
It is you who are describing a fictional God.
All Gods are fictional.
Phat writes:
I don't care what you literally interpret as written.
What "is written" is the character Jesus. Believing that Jesus rose from the dead but God didn't commit genocide is like believing that Long John Silver was a good cook but he wasn't really a pirate.
Phat writes:
The church, in general, disagrees with you.
"The church", in general, is wrong about a lot of things. And you're falling into Faith's trap of thinking that your congregation represents "the church".
Phat writes:
I'm going with them (and my own belief) on this one...
I'm just pointing out that you're wrong.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by Phat, posted 12-11-2018 12:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 1181 of 1677 (845147)
12-12-2018 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by Faith
12-11-2018 3:06 PM


Re: Back to The Rapture
Faith writes:
St. Francis of Assissi was sure God had given him the message "Rebuild My Church" which he took to mean he was to literally rebuild a specific church building that had fallen into ruin. Later he realized it was meant spiritually, that God was calling him to rebuild the spiritual Church which was being corrupted.
That's the perennial excuse, isn't it? When Adam and Eve didn't die that same day, it wasn't a physical death, it was a spiritual death. St Francis wasn't told to rebuild a physical church, he was told to rebuild a spiritual church.
Maybe the rapture is spiritual instead of physical. Maybe you're already gone.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:06 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1209 of 1677 (845970)
12-24-2018 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1208 by Phat
12-24-2018 8:24 AM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
jar was too literal...and so is ringo.
It isn't about a literal interpretation; it's about a literal reading. You can't hope to understand the story of the three bears if you read it as one bear.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1208 by Phat, posted 12-24-2018 8:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1212 by Phat, posted 12-24-2018 2:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1222 of 1677 (846035)
12-27-2018 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1212 by Phat
12-24-2018 2:21 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
the problem (for me, if I were you) is that you treat it as a literal reading of fiction. God is more than fiction to me.
If long John Silver was more than fiction to me, I still wouldn't make up my own stories about him. In fact, I'd be less likely to go beyond what was written.
Phat writes:
I can't justify reading a message and internalizing it as literal if it is coming from 3 bears.
And yet you can justify ignoring the parts you don't like and making up new parts to suit yourself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1212 by Phat, posted 12-24-2018 2:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1223 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 10:51 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1224 of 1677 (846058)
12-27-2018 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1223 by Phat
12-27-2018 10:51 AM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
... your egotistical view that you understand the Bible (through simple reading) better than the church.
What's egotistical about it? That sounds like the Fifty Million Nazis Can't be Wrong fallacy to me.
Phat writes:
One could argue that "we have the mind of Christ" and yet argue that it's not preinstalled into all humans.
You'd clearly be wrong. And you'd be disagreeing with the apostle Paul.
Phat writes:
I suspect that had you been there, or jar, and began spouting nonsense and challenging the status quo you would be shunned from the group.
I have no doubt that many groups would shun us for countering their nonsense with sense.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1223 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 10:51 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1225 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 12:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1226 of 1677 (846061)
12-27-2018 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Phat
12-27-2018 12:08 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
You claim not to be an atheist, yet you say God is fiction. True?
Certainly your God is fiction. You yourself believe that most gods are fiction. I don't know of any gods that aren't fiction.
Phat writes:
You claim that the message of Matthew 25 is the essence of your belief and that we all should strive to give according to our ability.
The message of Matthew 25 is the message for all social species. Non-social species have evolved other strategies for survival.
Phat writes:
Why are you seeking to buck Christianity?
The site is called EvC. I originally came here for the E but as it turns out, C isn't the only thing that Christians are wrong about. Instead of questioning my motives for pointing out where you're wrong, why don't you question your own motives for being wrong?
Phat writes:
And this idea that you are right is...at best...premature.
It's always premature to conclude that one is "right". There's always a possibility of becoming wrong - or at least "less right". On the other hand, when you are wrong, it's less likely that you will become right.
Phat writes:
There would be no valid reason to challenge strangers faith.
What difference does it make how strange they are?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1227 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:10 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1230 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1229 of 1677 (846066)
12-27-2018 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1227 by Phat
12-27-2018 1:10 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
I wish you could watch the videos. The apologists have a good argument
An argument often sounds good until you hear the other side.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1227 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1231 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1232 of 1677 (846070)
12-27-2018 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1230 by Phat
12-27-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
In any case, the counter arguments are at this time unconvincing. Show me a good one.
Show me a good argument and I'll show you a counter-argument.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1230 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1234 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1233 of 1677 (846071)
12-27-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1231 by Phat
12-27-2018 1:25 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
Carrier is under the influence of some pretty strong demons.
You're getting pretty desperate. That "demon" rubbish just weakens your case for God.
Phat writes:
By the way, how can you not be an atheist if you believe that all gods are fiction?
I haven't even heard of all gods. There could possibly be one that I don' t know about.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1235 of 1677 (846073)
12-27-2018 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1234 by Phat
12-27-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
off the cuff, I would say that A Creator makes more sense to me at least than an eternally expanding/contracting universe.
That's not an argument; it's just an opinion.
And you're just adding an entity in opposition to Occam's Razor. You might as well say that a diesel engine powered by angels pushing up and down on the pistons "makes nore sense to you".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1234 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1236 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1237 of 1677 (846075)
12-27-2018 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1236 by Phat
12-27-2018 1:48 PM


Re: Spirituality At EvC
Phat writes:
Perhaps some of us have a propensity to believe and some of us have a propensity to demand evidence.
We all have a propensity for evidence. Believers just choose to park their brains at the door in certain circumstances.
Phat writes:
The problem is, if you did have evidence, it would take away your responsibility to believe.
That's a copout. "Responsibility to believe" is gibberish.
Phat writes:
... but I think you are proud that you logically decided not to believe.
I didn't "decide not to believe". I just learned that the belief was false, like you learned that the belief in Santa Claus was false.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1236 by Phat, posted 12-27-2018 1:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1266 of 1677 (846155)
12-30-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1258 by GDR
12-30-2018 10:16 AM


GDR writes:
...and just why does that chemistry exist? Why do all these natural processes exist?
Emergent properties.
The periodic table represents every possible arrangement of protons, neutrons and electrons. Each combination has emergent properties.
On the other hand, why does God exist?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by GDR, posted 12-30-2018 10:16 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1268 by Phat, posted 12-30-2018 2:46 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1283 by GDR, posted 12-30-2018 9:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1269 of 1677 (846159)
12-30-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by Phat
12-30-2018 2:46 PM


Phat writes:
To count how much spare change you hand out
That doesn't explain why He existed in the first place.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by Phat, posted 12-30-2018 2:46 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1270 by Phat, posted 12-30-2018 2:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1271 of 1677 (846163)
12-30-2018 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1270 by Phat
12-30-2018 2:56 PM


Phat writes:
Humans are hardwired to ask why.
That still doesn't explain why God existed.
GDR asked why chemicals exist. Presumably, his answer is because God created them. So, the next obvious question is: Who created God?
If you can just stop asking at God as "the first uncaused thing", then why not start at chemicals as the first uncaused thing?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1270 by Phat, posted 12-30-2018 2:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by Phat, posted 12-30-2018 3:05 PM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024