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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 286 of 5796 (845138)
12-12-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Faith
12-12-2018 12:03 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Faith writes:
Trump didn't say Mexico would pay for it up front but will pay for it in the end. Of course he has to get the money from Congress first.
Trump made no such qualifications. If Mexico is going to pay for it in the end, then lets wait for Mexico to come up with the money. That's what Trump promised.
One of the million differences between Clinton or the Clintons and Trump is that he didn't commit his "affairs" in the Oval Office, or even at any point when he was campaigning for the Presidency, and what he did before has nothing to do with any of that, hard as the Left is trying to make it seem it does.
As if that matters. All they had on Clinton was him lying about one affair. That's it. The Republicans thought that was enough to go against the votes of the entire country and impeach Clinton. If you can't see how this negates your entire argument, then you are truly blind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 12:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by JonF, posted 12-12-2018 4:04 PM Taq has replied
 Message 310 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 5:48 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 287 of 5796 (845139)
12-12-2018 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
12-12-2018 12:10 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Faith writes:
Oh I don't claim any knowledge, I'm just trying to get across something of the Right point of view as I've been getting it, but there are plenty who do know all this and I really hope their views are going to have an impact in the end.
Then why in the world would Cohen plead guilty to something that isn't a crime, and why would he be facing jail time for something that wasn't a crime?
You seem to be assuming that everything the Right-wing media is telling you is true. Perhaps you should stop and think about that for a moment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 12:10 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 288 of 5796 (845141)
12-12-2018 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by DrJones*
12-12-2018 12:14 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
No. poll 85 Percent for Trump's wall.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by DrJones*, posted 12-12-2018 12:14 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2018 1:27 PM Faith has replied
 Message 290 by caffeine, posted 12-12-2018 1:41 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 291 by DrJones*, posted 12-12-2018 1:50 PM Faith has replied
 Message 292 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 2:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 289 of 5796 (845142)
12-12-2018 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
12-12-2018 1:20 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
quote:
No. poll 85 Percent for Trump's wall.
Source, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 1:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 7:39 PM PaulK has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 290 of 5796 (845143)
12-12-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
12-12-2018 1:20 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
No. poll 85 Percent for Trump's wall.
I'm not sure if you've left this post as a placeholder and intend to edit it with details later, but if you're remembering some poll reporting 85% of voters being in favour of Trump's wall I've no idea where you got it from.
I found a Pew poll in which 39% said they thought a border wall was very or somewhat important, but that's almost two years old.
A Rasmussen survey from the middle of last year 37% said they thought the wall should be built. Trump traditionally performs better on Ramsussen surveys than the other major polling organisations since they report only the views of those who report themselves 'likely voters'; as opposed to all citizens or all adults as is more common in other firms.
In a poll commissioned by CBS (and carried out by SSRS) earlier this year 35% of respondents favoured building the wall.
According to a Quinnipiac poll earlier this year, 37% of voters support the wall.
The highest support figures for a wall on the US-Mexican border I found in any poll (not an exhaustive search) was a poll commissioned by Fox News back in 2006, in which 50% supported a wall.
If the sources you're restricting yourself to are telling you that 85% of Americans support the building of a border wall, you're not shielding yourself from liberal propaganda - you're shielding yourself from the real world.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.
Edited by caffeine, : Somehow made a right mess
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 1:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 291 of 5796 (845144)
12-12-2018 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
12-12-2018 1:20 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
No. poll 85 Percent for Trump's wall.
source?
also:
Poll: Americans Want Trump To Compromise On Border Wall Funding : NPR
highlights:
By a 21-point margin 57 percent to 36 percent Americans think the president should compromise on the wall to avoid a government shutdown, rather than stand firm
But not only do most Americans oppose risking a government shutdown over a wall, but more than two-thirds (69 percent) do not believe building a wall should even be an immediate priority for Congress. That includes half who do not believe it should be a priority at all.
and house of representatives: 235 Democratic 200 Republican.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 1:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 7:41 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 292 of 5796 (845148)
12-12-2018 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
12-12-2018 1:20 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Faith writes:
No. poll 85 Percent for Trump's wall.
Just more evidence of you not knowing what the truth or facts are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 1:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 293 of 5796 (845158)
12-12-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Taq
12-12-2018 1:01 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Trump did allegedly break campaign finance laws while he was a candidate and afterwards. That's what Cohen accused him of.
ABE Not only Cohen but the publishers of the National Enquirer admitted, in their plea deal:
quote:
AMI admitted that it made the $150,000 payment in concert with a candidate’s presidential campaign, and in order to ensure that the woman did not publicize damaging allegations about the candidate before the 2016 presidential election. AMI further admitted that its principal purpose in making the payment was to suppress the woman’s story so as to prevent it from influencing the election.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 1:01 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 5:30 PM JonF has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 294 of 5796 (845162)
12-12-2018 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by JonF
12-12-2018 4:04 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
JohF writes:
Trump did allegedly break campaign finance laws while he was a candidate and afterwards. That's what Cohen accused him of.
ABE Not only Cohen but the publishers of the National Enquirer admitted, in their plea deal:
I tend to agree with Comey on all of this. Let Mueller finish his work and hand in his report. Then, in 2020, let the people decide if Trump should be in office. He already lost the last election by 3 million popular votes, and I don't see how he will do any better in 2020. Of course, the Dems are really good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but hopefully they get their senses together and nominate a half-way decent candidate.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by JonF, posted 12-12-2018 4:04 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by AZPaul3, posted 12-12-2018 6:44 PM Taq has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 295 of 5796 (845169)
12-12-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Taq
12-12-2018 5:30 PM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
the Dems are really good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but hopefully they get their senses together and nominate a half-way decent candidate.
Oh, hey, got anybody in mind? On the positive side? With an actual chance to win? Who wouldn't deliberately insult and disgust everyone on the planet except Putin?
Elizabeth Warren?
No, Not Bernie again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Taq, posted 12-12-2018 5:30 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Taq, posted 12-13-2018 1:54 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 296 of 5796 (845173)
12-12-2018 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Faith
12-12-2018 10:09 AM


The Faith Fact Checker
This is the Faith Fact Checker. I'll use the Washington Post Pinocchio system.
Faith writes:
I'm not reading anything from the Left, I get overdosed on it just by opening the Internet or coming to EvC, without actively choosing to read it.
Faith is describing how she feels, so I'll rate this true.

It is not just "online" America but all the news media and everywhere you look there are nothing but Leftist lies that are unfortunately taken to be the truth by everybody here.
Accusation with no substantiation.

The disconnect between what I read here and what I get from the conservative commentators is enormous.

It's all designed to bring down Trump whom they hate with a purple passion, by hook or by crook, by spin and by lies,...
Unsubstantiated allegation.

...so they will turn moral failures into felonies,...
Trump's legal jeopardy is not due to moral failures but to paying (in the form of illegal campaign contributions) to keep information from the American people in order to fraudulently gain the presidency. The claim is false.

...and incautious exaggerations or memory failure by him or anyone he knows into prosecutable lies,...
Here's Trump lying about knowing about the Storm Daniels payoff:
This claim is false.

...and invent a huge collusion with Russia out of thin air.
There is no publicly available evidence thus far that Trump colluded with the Russians to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, so no one is inventing collusion out of thin air. But there is a great deal of smoke. The claim is false.

It doesn't exist...
Given that Mueller hasn't yet released his report, whether the evidence for collusion exists or not is not yet publicly known. The claim is false.

...but as long as they keep acting like it does,...
Many people think it likely that with all the smoke there is very likely fire. This claim this true.

...repeating the lie in the hope that it will be believed,...
Unsubstantiated allegation. Again, everyone knows that Mueller hasn't yet released his report, so the public does not yet know if any such evidence of collusion exists, and no one is claiming that the public does know it exists. This claim is false.

...which Leftists only too easily do believe,...
See previous comment. The claim is false.

...and pretending a whole slew of unrelated small crimes by other people,...
Here are the "unrelated small crimes" Mueller has either charged people with or already obtained guilty pleas so far:
  • George Papadopoulos: False statements to the FBI
  • Paul Manafort: Convicted on eight counts of financial crimes, struck plea deal with Mueller for remaining charges, but then broke plea deal. Also, obstruction of justice related to witness tampering.
  • Rick Gates: One false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.
  • Michael Flynn: False statements to the FBI.
  • Michael Cohen: Pled guilt to tax and bank charges, campaign finance violations related to hush money payments, lying to Congress.
  • Richard Pinedo: Pled guilty to identity theft.
  • Alex van der Zwaan: False statements to the FBI.
  • Konstantin Kilimnik: Charged with attempted obstruction of justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s case.
  • 12 Russian GRU officers: Charged with hacking and leaking of Democrats’ emails.
  • 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies: Indicted on conspiracy charges and identity theft related to interference with the 2016 campaign.
These are actual and significant crimes, nothing "pretend" about them. This claim is completely untrue.

...that are totally unrelated to Trump's campaign,...
Some of the crimes are unrelated to the Trump campaign, such as Manafort's financial crimes. This is partly true so we'll give it only two Pinocchios.

...prove Russia did collude with him to influence the election,...
Faith already said this once. It is still false.

...they apparently think they are going to influence Trump's supporters to turn against him by all this.
It has been said over and over again both here and in the press that no amount of evidence will sway Trump supporters. The claim is false.

I certainly hope not but lies can be powerful, as Hitler knew.
It is true that lies can be powerful, especially when repeated over and over again from the highest pulpit in the world.

Meanwhile what SHOULD be prosecuted is that fake "dossier"...
The dossier is not fake. Its allegations are largely unsubstantiated but are still under investigation. This claim is false.

...that was paid for by Hillary Clinton that was supposed to destroy Trump,...
This implies that the Clinton campaign paid Daniel Steele to make up allegations. Steele is a respected investigator, and there is no evidence of this claim. Also, the dossier was never made public by the Clinton campaign and so could never have been expected to "destroy Trump." Likely the Clinton campaign understood that unsubstantiated allegations were worthless. This claim is false.

...her wanton destruction of the evidence of her emails,...
Unsubstantiated and unspecific allegation. What evidence is referred to? People sent and received each email, so other people have copies of the deleted emails, yet no evidence of anything suspicious has ever come to light. But the emails *were* deleted, so we'll give this only two Pinocchios.

...and all her other serious crimes that got a pass by the Leftists...
Unsubstantiated and unspecific allegation. If Clinton committed actual crimes then we would hear evidence instead of innuendo. America is a country of laws, and anyone suspected of crimes should face justice, regardless of political affiliation. If there are any actual Clinton crimes then so far no one knows what they are, so this is completely false.

...who are out to get Trump instead.
No one is out to get Trump, but everyone should respect the rule of law and expect our justice system to investigate and if necessary prosecute anyone suspected of a crime. This claim is false.
<image limit exceeded>
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 10:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 10:08 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 334 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 7:24 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 297 of 5796 (845179)
12-12-2018 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Percy
12-12-2018 8:09 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Percy, posted 12-12-2018 8:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 5796 (845180)
12-12-2018 10:23 PM


Computer still broken
I can read on my own computer but can't write. I am on my own computer now. It's hard to copy and paste a whole message letter by letter.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 299 of 5796 (845194)
12-13-2018 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Faith
12-12-2018 10:57 AM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Faith writes:
Yeah, well don't pat yourself on the back too vigorously, you can't miss the Left's commentaries, they're In Your Face wherever you turn. That's the point. Percy's been doing a pretty good job of keeping up with them for instance,...
I've been doing a horrible job of keeping up with Trump's misdeeds. They're like a runaway train - who can keep up? I've posted only six messages there in the past couple weeks.
...just read his stuff on the Trump Bashing Thread.
If you find anything untrue in The Trump Presidency thread then just post a note here and, assuming your feedback is fact based, it will be corrected.
You have to go out of your way to hear the Right's point of view.
Doesn't the TV remote switch to Fox News just as easily as any other channel? Aren't the webpages of Breitbart and Infowars just as easy to visit as any other webpage? Aren't you, again, complaining about nothing?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 10:57 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 300 of 5796 (845198)
12-13-2018 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
12-12-2018 11:26 AM


Re: The Gullibility of the Right's Echo Chamber
Faith Fact Checker on patrol again.
Faith writes:
Anybody who thinks there's any kind of equality between Left and Right these days so that we have to be "fair" and hear out both sides is really missing it completely IMO. The Left is on a political vendetta, period. I can't even say here what they are guilty of doing because of the prevailing deception.
The left's deception is so good that Faith doesn't know how they're doing it, but she knows they're doing it nonetheless. We'll give this four Pinocchios for being utter nonsense.

What they are doing to Trump is an abuse of power, a complete violation of what America is supposed to stand for, a complete contempt for those of us who voted for Trump.
Just what is it they are doing to Trump that is an abuse of power? Trump controls the White House and the Senate and the Republicans and the Republican party. The Democrats control the House and that's it, and they haven't even taken control yet - that won't happen until January. We'll give this four Pinocchios for being false and contrived.

They are trying to pull off a coup like any third world tyranny and they don't care how they do it they are so sure of their own rightness and so disdainful of the time honored institutions of America.
Faith doesn't say how the left is pulling off a coup, but she must be referring to Trump's exposure to the possibility of impeachment. Conspiring with AMI (publisher of the National Enquirer) to quash reports of sexual dalliances to defraud the American people of a free and fair election is just the kind offense covered by the Constitution, one of America's time-honored institutions. Lying about it is another offense. Attempting to cover it up is another offense. Dangling the possibility of pardons in front of those who might testify against him is obstruction of justice, another offense. Campaign staff and/or representatives meeting with Russians on multiple occasions during the campaign is another offense. Lying about it is another offense. Attempting to consummate very lucrative business deals with Russia that require the approval of the Russian government while running for president is another offense. Lying about it is another offense. What Mueller knows about Trump's offenses is likely far more than what is publicly known at present. We'll have to give this four Pinocchios.

They even try to turn all that against us. It's beyond disgusting.
I think Faith means that the left is trying to turn American institutions against the right. The left has very little power at the federal level, so this couldn't possibly be true. What Faith really means is that the laws should only apply to those on the left and that people on the right should get a free pass. This view is in itself disgusting, and so I give this four Pinocchios:

By the way I haven't been following Infowars these days, not that I've given up on them, but I'm still hearing the radio talk people I started listening to for the Midterm elections. Still particularly like Mark Levin, but there's also Hannity and Limbaugh and Michael Savage and half a dozen others not so well known. They mostly think alike on all these things though there are differences among them.
This appears to be true.

They talk to lawyers and in some cases are lawyers themselves, they do their homework, they make the Left sound like the bunch of politically motivated conspirators and manipulators I think they are.
That commentators like Mark Levin, Hannity Limbaugh and Michael Savage falsely accuse those on the left of being "politically motivated conspirators and manipulators" is likely true.

I would like to have heard what Schumer and Pelosi think is their effective enough plan for border security as they kept saying yesterday in the meeting with Trump, but it came across very clearly that they don't like the idea of really protecting our borders,...
What came across clearly is that they don't like the idea of Americans paying for an ineffective wall. What Democrats want is effective border security provided by a combination of proper staffing, efficient use of resources, technology, cooperation with Mexican authorities, working constructively with the source countries of illegal immigrants to solve the problems causing emigration, and yes, where it makes sense, walls. I have to give this four Pinocchios.

...and that Trump does, Trump is really truly for America and for Americans,...
Trump is mostly out for himself, and what he has left is for rich white Americans. This claim is false.

...and they are traitors though we aren't supposed to think that.
Calling the left traitors is extremely poor form. Putting it in British terms, the loyal opposition are not traitors. Traitors are people who promote their own personal interests to the detriment of their country, like by attempting to cut business deals with adversaries and cozying up to dictators. Or by fraudulently stealing an election through secret payoffs. This claim is false.

No, what they in fact are they smear on Trump instead. He doesn't deserve it, they do.
Faith doesn't say what specific smears have been made against Trump, but most of what's been said about Trump that wasn't known at the time later turned out to be true. They said Trump knew about the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal payoffs, he denied it, and then it later turned out he lied and had known about it all along, had in fact directed it. They said Trump knew about the business negotiations with Russians during the campaign, Trump denied it repeatedly, and then it later turned out he lied and had known about it all along. This claim is false.

Gosh could it be that all they really want is to get enough illegals into the country to increase the population of Democrats?
Illegals can't vote. Even Trump's own commission to investigate voter fraud came up empty. This claim is false.

Against the will of the people? No matter what it does to national security? They actively support ILLEGALITY.
A minority of Americans elected Trump. A minority of Americans want the wall. Democrats want border security that actually works. Democrats are opposed to illegal immigration. These claims are false.

They actively support sanctuary cities that are bastions of defiance against American citizens and the rule of law,...
The representatives of sanctuary cities were elected and are carrying out the will of the people who elected them. This claim is false.

...and all that slimy corruption gets rationalized as some kind of moral virtue. Yuck.
The policies of sanctuary cities were legally implemented, driven by and prohibiting cooperation with the abusive practices stemming from Trump immigration policies. Family separation policies are one example. Putting DACA participants in limbo is another. Arresting legal immigrants when they arrive at their immigration meetings and finding excuses for deporting them is another. This claim is false.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 12-12-2018 11:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
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