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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 392 of 5796 (845463)
12-16-2018 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
12-15-2018 3:07 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
You're referring to Obama deporting more illegal immigrants than Trump. But the actual concern is Trump's punitive treatment of immigrants, both illegal and those simply seeking asylum, such as family separation.
No I am talking about the punitive treatment, including separation of children from parents, that was SOP under OBAMA.
You seem to be trying to outdo yourself making stuff up. There was no family separation under Obama. While Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump, he didn't engage in the reprehensible practices engaged in by the Trump administration, such as putting the DACA applicants in limbo, deporting long time illegal immigrants with families, and using meetings with immigration officials as opportunities to make arrests. We're going to have to give you four Pinocchios again:
I admit I'm not good at this sort of discussion,...
You mean the fact-based kind of discussion? No kidding. You've worked hard at avoiding facts across a broad range of topics for years. I'm going to rate this dead true:
...I find it hard to keep information in mind, and I wish there were others here who would support me.
Why would anyone support the things you make up?
Marc9000 usually does a pretty good job but he's not always around and I don't know of anyone else.
Marc9000 has as poor a mastery of facts as yourself.
In any case the Leftist line that is pursued here is a pack of lies and needs to be confronted.
When anyone says anything untrue I would suggest that the best way to confront it would be with accurate and correct information. What you're doing now is just making stuff up and calling the left names.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 12-15-2018 3:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 393 of 5796 (845465)
12-16-2018 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Faith
12-15-2018 3:16 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
Collusion with Russia is far more true of Obama and the Clintons than of Trump?
Certainly true of the Clintons, yes. Uranium deal while Bill was getting hundreds of thousands for a talk there.
I've long complained about politicians cashing in after they leave office with speaking tours, but the Uranium One deal was on the up-and-up, approved by almost all the cabinet offices. Hillary Clinton's State office was just one of many cabinet offices approving the deal.
Hillary should have been prosecuted for her email fraud but got a pass on that...
Except Hillary didn't commit fraud. She violated security protocols and deleted emails. Ironically it was State Department computers that got hacked, not Clinton's email server.
...we can be sure Trump would never get.
If you've been reading the posts here then you've seen I've posted on several occasions that while some of Trump's actions may rise to the level of impeachable offenses that it's still a political decision about whether impeachment is called for. If the House declines to impeach then that would qualify as Trump receiving a pass.
Poor Ivanka who did nothing remotely like what Hillary did they've tried to smear with that crime.
How is Ivanka using a private email server not the same as what Hillary did?
No you aren't following evidence, but I'll give you that you think you are. You are following Leftist insinuations.
If you think any of the information I've provided is incorrect then you are free to provide better information. So far you've provided nothing of substance, just empty denials.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Typos.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 12-15-2018 3:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 12:32 PM Percy has replied
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 12:34 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 396 of 5796 (845474)
12-16-2018 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
12-15-2018 3:44 PM


Faith replying to JonF writes:
What recordings? Of what? I don't believe a thing you say.
Do you not listen to any interviews of Trump? He called Cohen's recording of him disgusting. Do you not listen to any interviews of Trump's now lawyer Rudolph Giuliani? He called Cohen's recording of Trump an act reflecting distrust. Do you not pay attention to the news? The recording was plastered and played all over the place when it first became public around the end of July. You are just stumbling around in the dark in a position of utter ignorance refusing to believe fact after fact . I couldn't find anything with just the tape, but here's a brief news story about it that plays all of it with brief analysis between each portion:
What public record? Google has 2015 not 2016, why should any of that be believed? I'm going witn Limbaugh for the time being.
What Google search are you doing and where did it direct you that is telling you it is 2015? It's August 5, 2016. See, for one, Karen McDougal's Affair with Donald Trump:
quote:
McDougal later met with investigative reporters from ABC News, which prompted American Media to offer to buy the rights to McDougal's story for $150,000 in August 5, 2016.
Or try this from just a few days ago from Bloomberg's article Tabloid Company’s Admission Shows New Peril for Trump’s Circle:
quote:
One deal was struck on Aug. 5, 2016, when AMI agreed to acquire the limited life rights of McDougal -- identified in the agreement as a model and actress -- including her story of her relationships with any then-married man in exchange for $150,000. That amount was substantially more than the company would otherwise pay because of Cohen’s assurances to Pecker that AMI would be substantially reimbursed.
This story also describes AMI's (publisher of the National Enquirer) and David Pecker's (chief officer of AMI) agreement with Mueller to avoid prosecution in return for cooperation for three years.
It isn't a debate if you bring no information to the table, refuse to inform yourself, and then just stymie all discussion by rejecting all information provided to you.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 12-15-2018 3:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:14 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 397 of 5796 (845477)
12-16-2018 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
12-15-2018 4:05 PM


Re: A Few Books
Faith writes:
1. I've heard a few interviews with Jerome Corsi about his experience of being investigated by the Mueller witch hunt which he describes as acting like the Gestapo or the KGB and trying to manipulate him to lie: and he wrote a book about it:
Silent No More: How I Became a Political Prisoner of Mueller's "Witch Hunt"
Corsi is a well known conspiracy theorist. Here's one of his emails to Stone:
quote:
Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. One shortly after I'm back. 2nd in Oct. Impact planned to be very damaging.
Yet he still denied to Mueller having any information about Wikileaks.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 12-15-2018 4:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 399 of 5796 (845480)
12-16-2018 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Faith
12-15-2018 5:24 PM


Re: Oh one more thing: a Fake News report
Faith writes:
You claim to believe that NBC News and CNN are making up sources.
Yes or the sources are making it up.
So in your mind it isn't plausible that Trump is the least bit concerned about the possibility of impeachment. That would be rather strange, wouldn't it, given that it is the focus of a lot of attention.
You're really just playing your game of "deny deny deny" while not offering anything of substance. How could you possibly have any idea of Trump's state of mind? Why would you doubt that some of the great many Washington reporters have sources among Trump's friends who he talks to on his personal cell at night?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 12-15-2018 5:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:38 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 401 of 5796 (845488)
12-16-2018 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Faith
12-16-2018 12:32 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
If you think any of the information I've provided is incorrect then you are free to provide better information. So far you've provided nothing of substance, just empty denials.
You don't offer any real support for your "information" though you are requiring me to be able to answer it with more substance than your own hot air?
I offer support for a great deal of what I say, and if you think support for anything is lacking then you only need ask. What is needed is information supporting your own opinions. So far you seem just a blind and ignorant Trump supporter.
All you are doing is asserting your views but in your mind they are facts and mine are not without any need to prove it beyond preferring your own sources to mine. I'll go with my sources for now, thanks anyway.
You've ignored most of what I've said, especially recently. I am not just asserting my views. I am supporting what I say with quotes, excerpts and links. You've addressed none of it while citing no sources of your own and conceding how really bad you are at fact-based discussion.
And by the way, "Pinocchio" is a way of calling me a liar since Pinocchio's nose grew when he lied, so no, you are not just saying I'm wrong. You are wrong that I'm wrong anyway, since you are just offering your own opinion against mine, but beyond that you ARE calling me a liar with that Pinocchio theme.
As mentioned before, I'm using the Washington Post fact checking system, which merely assesses the truth or falsity of a claim. It doesn't label anything or anyone a liar, and indeed no such word appears on the page.
I'm going to have to give your claim that I called you a liar four Pinnochios, the number of Pinocchios reserved for claims that are just straight out false:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 12:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:56 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 403 of 5796 (845494)
12-16-2018 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by Faith
12-16-2018 12:34 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
If you've been reading the posts here then you've seen I've posted on several occasions that while some of Trump's actions may rise to the level of impeachable offenses.
There are no impeachable offenses except in the fevered minds of Leftists.
I'm not a leftist - I'm an independent.
And you haven't said anything of substance in rebuttal, just expressed an opinion, while I've provided specific examples of what I believe are Trump's impeachable offenses so far, and what additional ones might at some point be revealed to have occurred. Detailed in posts from the past few days, you've ignored almost all of it. You post occasional replies, but you still ignore most of what I say. You rarely quote anything of substance, let alone reply to it.
And again, what part of "Mueller's investigation is not yet complete and he hasn't yet produced his report" don't you understand? As I said once already, maybe Trump's guilty of nothing, maybe of something, maybe of a lot. We don't know yet. But we do know certain things (things that, to beat a dead horse, I've mentioned before and that you've mostly ignored), like that 16 members of the Trump campaign spoke to Russian representatives, and that five top people of the Trump campaign have pled or been found guilty of various offenses, and that we know little of what Flynn has told Trump, and that he paid off mistresses to help his campaign while not declaring any campaign contributions.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 12:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 2:16 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 407 of 5796 (845519)
12-16-2018 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by Faith
12-16-2018 1:56 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
Pinocchio means liar, period.
I think Pinocchio means a little more than that, a cautionary tale of redemption and all that, but I provided the link where the icons are explained. If you don't like them then say things that are true.
Don't find your "facts" to be persuasive, sorry.
More significantly, you seem unable to muster any rebuttal, or to offer any support for your own views. You just believe what you believe, and rational fact-based thinking be damned. Congratulations on contributing a factless insult laden mess to your thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 408 of 5796 (845521)
12-16-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Faith
12-16-2018 1:25 PM


Re: A Few Books
Faith writes:
Yet he still denied to Mueller having any information about Wikileaks.
He denies knowing Assange or ever communicating with him. And you think you've proved otherwise?
The email from Corsi again was:
quote:
Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. One shortly after I'm back. 2nd in Oct. Impact planned to be very damaging.
Unless you're claiming clairvoyance or ESP, that single email by itself shows he was lying, but there's more. Briefly summarizing, the publicly available information we have so far is that after Stone requested that Corsi query Assange, Corsi then recruited Ted Malloch in London to visit the Ecuadorian embassy and speak with Assange. The FBI served Malloch with a subpoena to appear for questioning before Robert Mueller, and with a warrant for his phone. It doesn't matter that Corsi denies everything publicly because Mueller evidently already has everything he needs. One of the articles that covers all this is Mueller has emails from Stone pal Corsi about WikiLeaks Dem email dump.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by PaulK, posted 12-16-2018 5:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 414 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 410 of 5796 (845525)
12-16-2018 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Faith
12-16-2018 1:38 PM


Re: Oh one more thing: a Fake News report
Faith writes:
I know from past incidents of reports about what's going on in the White House that suggest something like chaos or bad feeling or the like that it turned out to be made up, when other credible people answered the reports.
Let me guess that when anonymous sources spoke about the Obama administration that you believed them, but that when anonymous sources speak about the Trump administration that you don't. Inconsistent much?
Even without anonymous sources the Trump administration is obviously in chaos. Tillerson called him a "moron," and later someone undisciplined who doesn't read, including briefing papers, and doesn't take advice. John Kelly called the Trump White House "crazytown" and Trump "an idiot" and "unhinged. Plus we know Trump rankles under any kind of control. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former Chief of Staff Reince Priebus both called Trump an idiot. Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was "dumb as shit." Former national security adviser H. R. McMaster called Trump a "dope" and an "idiot." Seven Bannon said he was "like an 11-year-old child." In 2016 Mick Mulvaney said, "Yes, I am supporting Donald Trump, but I'm doing so despite the fact that I think he's a terrible human being" (he thought Hillary just as bad). In 2015 Senator Lindsey Graham called Trump a "race-baiting xenophobic bigot." Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of "a fifth- or sixth-grader." Of course chaos is emerging from this administration.
It's a typical piece of Fake News designed to buttress the Leftist line in the minds of the public. I think he's more concerned with trying to get his agenda done than he is worried about what the Left has been trying to do to him since before he even took office.
I think more and more of Trump's attention is being consumed by efforts to protect himself from impeachment, or down the road prosecution. Trump doesn't need help from anyone of the left, right or anywhere else to destroy his presidency - he's doing a fine job all by himself.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Typo.
Edited by Percy, : Typo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 1:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 411 of 5796 (845526)
12-16-2018 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Faith
12-16-2018 2:16 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
Faith writes:
You often say you're not a Leftist but you are defending the Leftist position.
You call everyone you disagree with leftist. You are not defending Republicanism or conservativism - you're defending Trump, who is neither Republican nor conservative. His positions are a mix of his own random impulses.
I am an independent who finds much to admire in both the liberal and conservative positions. There is little truly conservative in Trump's positions, and little to admire in them.
Mueller should have stopped the investigation long ago because he'd turned up nothing to show Trump colluded with Russia which was supposedly the reason for the whole thing, and he still hasn't, and so what if he hasn't produced a report, just means he has nothing to report.
Does the illogic in this need to be described? When did rationality depart your mortal soul?
There was no collusion.
Something you couldn't possibly know.
Look, all the stuff you think is meaningful isn't.
An allegation without substance or support.
Talking to Russians is normal in politics or business, everybody is trying to make something out of what is really nothing.
You apparently wackily think all those who lied about talking to the Russians did it because everything was aboveboard.
It is very likely the payments to the women will also be shown to have nothing to to do with the campaign. You are buying the Leftist spin and calling it facts.
It is not a fact that the mistress payoffs were related to the campaign. What is a fact is that Cohen, Pecker and likely Weisselberg have said the payoffs were related to the campaign. That doesn't make it a fact that the payoffs were related to the campaign, but it is strong evidence, something your position lacks in spades. You're hiding your head in the sand.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Faith, posted 12-16-2018 2:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:02 PM Percy has replied
 Message 415 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 423 of 5796 (845723)
12-19-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by Faith
12-17-2018 2:02 PM


Re: The Faith Fact Checker
I'll reply to all your replies in this message.
Replying to Message 412:
Faith writes:
Pinocchio, a picture of Pinocchio with growing nose, means liar. Period.
It can, but in this case it means untrue. Maybe you're lying (meaning you know it's untrue), or maybe you're not (meaning you don't know it's untrue). It doesn't say either way - it just says it's untrue. Four Pinocchios means there's no shred of truth whatsoever.
You call everyone you disagree with leftist.
Untrue.
In political discussions? Sure you do. You're doing it all over the place in this thread. We're gonna have to give this four Pinocchios:
You are not defending Republicanism or conservativism
Don't think I've claimed to.
I didn't say you claimed to. I was only clarifying that you're not defending any coherent political philosophy, just the collected mess of impulsive policies Trump has cobbled together that you can call Trumpism or Trumpublican, but certainly not Republicanism or conservatism which has a long and distinguished history.
In any case it's irrelevant. Leftist is leftist.
Well, if you're going to be that constructive and mature about things, then Trumpist is Trumpist.
you're defending Trump, who is neither Republican nor conservative. His positions are a mix of his own random impulses.
Not interested in the labels.
You of all people are the most interested in labels. That's why you keep calling everyone leftist. We'll have to give you four Pinocchios again:
Yes I am defending Trump, because like others on the Right I like his policies. Trump has been boldly speaking for what we on the Right care most about since he first opened his mouth in the campaign.
The right is conservative, and Trump is not a conservative. He has only a couple positions that align with conservatism, like anti-abortion and a strong military.
He didn't talk like a politician and we like that.
He doesn't talk like a mature adult, either. Do you like that, too?
He said what we think and we like that. The more he is opposed on irrelevant side issues the more we like him and hate his opposition.
The Trump Organization, emolument violations, the Trump Foundation, the Trump Inaugural Committee, the Trump campaign, the hush money payments, obstruction of justice, and the Trump administration are all being investigated. These are not irrelevant side issues.
Replying to Message 413:
Even without anonymous sources the Trump administration is obviously in chaos. Tillerson called him a "moron," and later someone undisciplined who doesn't read, including briefing papers, and doesn't take advice. John Kelly called the Trump White House "crazytown" and Trump "an idiot" and "unhinged.
That's not Trump in chaos, that's his unhinged opposition always in meltdown mode trying to bring him down.
Trump hired people who worked, or still work, closely with him who provided a picture of a chaotic White House that does no planning, follows Trump's often misguided impulses, and caroms from one crisis to the next.

Replying to Message 414
The email from Corsi again was:
quote:
Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. One shortly after I'm back. 2nd in Oct. Impact planned to be very damaging.
Unless you're claiming clairvoyance or ESP, that single email by itself shows he was lying,
Other ways to interpret that email than that.
No, there really aren't other ways to interpret Corsi's email. If there were you would be able to describe them.

Replying to Message 415:
There was no collusion with Russia.
Anyone should know that by now, it doesn't take special powers of understanding.
Again (and again and again), what part of "Mueller is still investigating and has not yet released his report - we do not yet know what he has learned" do you not understand? I've raised this point so many times now, and you've ignored it as many times, that I have to ask, as Forrest Gump was asked, "Are you stupid?"

Replying to Message 416:
I suspect Limbaugh was talking about a different incident but I'll have to wait and see. If there was an earlier incident that would blow the whole campaign thing to bits anyway.
Well, when you figure out what the hell you're talking about you let us know, okay? In the meantime, AMI and Pecker by agreement with Trump paid off McDougal on August 5, 2016, at some point after that Trump and Cohen are recorded discussing purchase of the McDougal payoff from AMI, and Stormy Daniels was paid off at the direction of Trump by Michael Cohen through offshore shell companies a couple weeks before the election.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Faith, posted 12-17-2018 2:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 424 of 5796 (845744)
12-19-2018 3:35 PM


Over the past two days all news outlets (which I'll add includes Fox News, just to forestall the mindless "Fake News" claims) have reported that Judge Emmet Sullivan:
Judge Emmet Sullivan was appointed to the bench by actual Republicans (as opposed to faux Republican Trump). He was appointed to the Superior Court of DC in 1984 by Ronald Reagan, and to the DC Court of Appeals in 1992 by George H. W. Bush. I call attention to this for two reasons a) In anticipation of the objection that Sullivan is a biased judge; b) To restate the obvious that the judiciary should be politically neutral and rule according to the law, which appears to be the case the vast majority of the time. Every Trump claim of bias has been false. What is true is that when anyone does something Trump doesn't like, he will strike out at them with the worst thing he can make up.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Clarify.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 425 of 5796 (845747)
12-19-2018 4:43 PM


The Latest Tweet from the Twit
Trump today tweeted:
quote:
The whole Russian Witch Hunt is a Fraud and a Hoax which should be ended immediately. Also, it was paid for by Crooked Hillary & DNC!
Do Trumpublicans really believe the Russian Witch Hunt, er, the Mueller probe, is funded by Hillary Clinton and the DNC? If so, why do you think Trump constantly complains about the cost of the Mueller probe?
Or is Trump just free associating while tweeting, silently switching contexts from a sentence about the Mueller probe to one about the Steele dossier?
Fox News hasn't commented on this tweet as far as I can find.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 426 of 5796 (845756)
12-20-2018 6:16 AM


Trump Impulsively and Against All Advice Announces Syria Troop Pullout
After a meeting with a small group of advisers who all opposed the move, Trump has announced a sudden withdrawal of American troops from Syria. He did so without consultation with Congress or even his defense secretary
The move has been characterized in terms ranging from ill-advised to aiding an ISIS resurgence to being a death sentence for the Kurds. We're all in favor of bringing American troops home, but only after consideration of all the ramifications. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) criticized the move, deeming it a "disaster in the making." Hopefully Congress can step up to the plate and exercise its war powers responsibilities.
--Percy

  
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